Page 9 | Shouted at by male midwife mid panic attack

ThisBrickWriter · 2024-10-16T11:05:19+00:00

Hi all, Yesterday, I attended the Early Pregnancy Unit for a suspected miscarriage. Due to complex PTSD from a violent sexual assault, I generally can't see male providers without prior notice, and sometimes only with my husband present in regards to female examinations. This has never been an issue. At my usual hospital, this is flagged on my chart to avoid misunderstandings and so I don’t need to explain. However, since I was bleeding, my midwife recommended I go to a closer hospital, where I’d been seen before (without any issues). I take it on board I should have mentioned it, however as I’d been seen before in the unit only a few weeks before and I’d only seen women providers. Again, I accept this was my mistake. Unfortunately, when I entered the exam room, the midwife was male. I immediately panicked and explained that I didn’t know there would be a man present. He seemed visibly offended and dismissive, telling me to leave the room in an upset tone. Despite being visibly distressed and bleeding from a miscarriage, I ended up trying to comfort him by explaining my history. The situation escalated with him shouting at me, and none of the nurses intervened. They blocked the door and wouldn’t allow me to leave. I was able to get out and to the reception, where I requested to speak to someone in charge so they could help. The male midwife followed me and continued shouting, saying I had verbally attacked him. He even told me to "get over myself" and shared that he also had a history of panic disorder. I felt utterly humiliated and helpless. Eventually, the lead midwife took me to a quiet room, but no one apologized or acknowledged his behavior. What’s most upsetting is that during both a miscarriage and after sharing my trauma history, I was shown no compassion or sensitivity by this midwife, which is the complete opposite of the amazing care I’ve always received from the NHS, especially during feminine examinations. I’m considering filing a formal complaint, but I’m worried it won’t be taken seriously. I was later told that others on the unit are afraid of this man and won’t speak up. I went to PALS, and they advised I file a formal complaint with the hospital, but I'm unsure if it will actually lead to any action. I’m not entirely sure what outcome I want to see, except that I believe the midwife should have shown more compassion in such a sensitive situation. Has anyone been in a similar situation? Will my complaint be taken seriously, and where is the best place to escalate it? Thanks in advance for any advice.

piccolorhinoceros · 16/10/2024 16:32

There are a lot of things not adding up. Why were there three nurses in a room with a midwife? If the unit was closing why was the waiting room full? Was OP possibly verbally abusive and unaware of it due to her panic?

ahemfem · 16/10/2024 16:32

TrippySkip · 16/10/2024 16:31

I would be astonished if the OP was the first woman ever to request a female midwife. I bet plenty of women do who have not been abused. They just feel more comfortable with a woman clinician. And it’s every woman’s right to ask for a same sex midwife.

If the male midwife really thinks this is about being ‘sexist’ and is ‘triggered’, he is pretty stupid and should not be working in the profession.

And it’s fine for a distressed patient to scream or cry if panicked (obv not be abusive). If you can’t deal with it, don’t work in healthcare.

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That's why I'm asking what form this took. I'm guessing it wasn't sweary in which case I'm not sure what his beef is

ahemfem · 16/10/2024 16:33

HildaHosmede · 16/10/2024 15:08

none of the nurses intervened. They blocked the door and wouldn’t allow me to leave

I don't disbelieve that there was an abusive male there...it would hardly be uncommon. But honestly op, this comment - well, this seems so astonishingly unlikely that I think it's also possible that your whole perception of the situation was very skewed.

By all means complain and view CCTV etc but I wouldn't go in all guns blazing at this stage.

Same. I'd check the cctv and just double check as you were quite panicky at the time so just get an outsiders sense of perspective before you persue. If it's as you remember go in guns blazing so to speak

SilverPiscis · 16/10/2024 16:35

Make a formal complaint with PALS and thrn to CQC. They will care when you raise this with CQC

Original poster

ThisBrickWriter · 16/10/2024 16:36

someonethatyoulovetoomuch · 16/10/2024 16:17

Don’t worry, you don’t need to be crystal clear about what happened, you just need to tell them what happened as you remember it and let the person allocated to investigate try to find out what happened. The nurse may not have deliberately moved to block you from leaving the room, but that’s your perception of what happened and that’s important. She might have been trying to enter the room to diffuse the situation, she might have just wandered in the way, she might have been deliberately obstructing the doorway (which would never ever be “policy” - it’s hospital not prison). At the very least, she can reflect on why her actions in that moment increased your distress and hopefully be able to manage it better if a similar situation happened in future. The complaints process isn’t about trying to catch you out or prove the hospital is right and you’re wrong, at least not in any maternity unit I’ve worked in. It’s an opportunity for staff involved to pause and reflect on what happened and the impact it had, it can also be an opportunity for the senior team to find out about incidents that may otherwise go unreported, or help build a case against a known difficult member of staff. Women’s voices are powerful, believe it or not, and are often taken more seriously than staff complaints about the same person. You aren’t on trial, the onus isn’t on you to prove your recollection is absolute truth. How you felt in that moment is valid, whether the staff intended to make you feel that way or not.

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Thank you so much for this message and being so kind

OP posts:

ahemfem · 16/10/2024 16:38

Wolfpa · 16/10/2024 13:37

Nope I am saying that with every thing going on mid panic attack there are three truths. Hers, his and the full truth.

panic attacks trigger the fight or flight response which can mean we experience things differently if we weren’t in that response. For example the people blocking the door may have just been standing there and it felt at the time like they were blocking the door or if in a full panic attack she may have been a danger to herself and others meaning that containment was the best option at that moment.

this is why the independent investigation is needed. It is easy to say that the midwife was out of order but both sides of the story are needed before we start damming them.

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Absolutely this. Not saying what OP experienced didn't happen but it makes sense to check given her hightened state at the time

Hoppinggreen · 16/10/2024 16:41

ahemfem · 16/10/2024 16:23

I immediately panicked and explained that I didn’t know there would be a man present. what did this look like? Was it loud? Screaming? Or calm? I think if you'd explained you're sorry you have a note on your file about not seeing a male due to a difficult history the situation may have gone differently. With no context I can see why he may have been triggered into just thinking you're being sexist.

However if he'd managed to control his emotions and listen he would have understood I'd have hoped.

Sorry you had to deal with this.

OP had a panic attack due to past trauma
She was in no position to consider whether she was "triggering" anyone else and why would she be saying sorry???

Superhansrantowindsor · 16/10/2024 16:44

Sounds awful op. I would never agree to a male midwife unless there really was no alternative. Any man with half a brain cell would understand that some women would be uncomfortable with a male midwife.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/10/2024 16:45

Screaming? Or calm? I think if you'd explained you're sorry you have a note on your file about not seeing a male due to a difficult history the situation may have gone differently. With no context I can see why he may have been triggered into just thinking you're being sexist.

Do you understand that it isn't because of "sexism" that many women don't want to be intimately cared for by men, and we don't have to justify why?

He's also supposedly a professional HCP, "triggering" (a mental health/trauma term) shouldn't come into it when dealing with patients, particularly in such a sensitive situation.

HashtagFunMoms · 16/10/2024 16:46

That’s really disgraceful - I’m so sorry that happened to you. Please file a complaint.

Carriemac · 16/10/2024 16:52

piccolorhinoceros · 16/10/2024 16:32

There are a lot of things not adding up. Why were there three nurses in a room with a midwife? If the unit was closing why was the waiting room full? Was OP possibly verbally abusive and unaware of it due to her panic?

What are you victim blaming ? OP had an upsetting experience and there may be many reasons other staff were there , not least keeping an eye on an abusive colleague they may all secretly detests and hope someone complains about him .

Lifeomars · 16/10/2024 16:56

GrumpOlympics · 16/10/2024 13:28

Am I the only person who thinks it's slightly odd for a male to become a midwife. Or all of the specialties to choose.

men are gynaecologists, personally I also find this odd and wonder why they choose this specialism.

TrippySkip · 16/10/2024 16:57

Some of the comments here are ridiculous. The presence of the male midwife made her panic and this was exacerbated by his awful attitude. Yet she shouldn’t complain because she was panicky at the time?

As a consultant psychiatrist I have met hundreds of patients with anxiety and panic. Almost immediately after the incident, they are usually able to reflect on triggers and why they acted the way they did. They don’t tend to invent stories and make up things that didn’t happen.

The OP is articulate and reflective and nothing makes me doubt what she is saying. Panic does not mean that somebody is unable to look at their actions in a balanced way afterwards.

ahemfem · 16/10/2024 17:00

Hoppinggreen · 16/10/2024 16:41

OP had a panic attack due to past trauma
She was in no position to consider whether she was "triggering" anyone else and why would she be saying sorry???

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Because its polite to say it's not you it's me in these circumstances

MrsWinkly · 16/10/2024 17:01

How are you feeling OP? I'm wondering if you even got the medical help you needed - there's a lot to go through physically right now, and the emotional distress can't be helping. Just hoping you can get the support you deserve.

ahemfem · 16/10/2024 17:02

Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/10/2024 16:45

Screaming? Or calm? I think if you'd explained you're sorry you have a note on your file about not seeing a male due to a difficult history the situation may have gone differently. With no context I can see why he may have been triggered into just thinking you're being sexist.

Do you understand that it isn't because of "sexism" that many women don't want to be intimately cared for by men, and we don't have to justify why?

He's also supposedly a professional HCP, "triggering" (a mental health/trauma term) shouldn't come into it when dealing with patients, particularly in such a sensitive situation.

If course I understand why. You don't know me. You don't know what I've been through.

piccolorhinoceros · 16/10/2024 17:03

Carriemac · 16/10/2024 16:52

What are you victim blaming ? OP had an upsetting experience and there may be many reasons other staff were there , not least keeping an eye on an abusive colleague they may all secretly detests and hope someone complains about him .

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I'm not at all, I'm merely asking questions. As far as I remember nobody has said not to complain, just asked questions to try to get a clearer picture of what happened, and to get OP to clarify it in her own head as some of the details don't fully make sense.

TrippySkip · 16/10/2024 17:08

piccolorhinoceros · 16/10/2024 17:03

I'm not at all, I'm merely asking questions. As far as I remember nobody has said not to complain, just asked questions to try to get a clearer picture of what happened, and to get OP to clarify it in her own head as some of the details don't fully make sense.

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Are you unable to see the bigger picture here and what the main issue is? Rather than nitpicking at details.

And regarding verbal ‘abuse’, I see no evidence that the Op was abusive. And quite frankly, if someone in distress uses some swear words to express themselves (not saying the Op did that at all), as long as she wasn’t telling the staff to F off, then it’s understandable. I am not sure why people are insinuating that the OP was abusive anyway??

ScaryM0nster · 16/10/2024 17:11

It sounds like both you and he could have handled things better in the early stages - and you’re well aware of that.

In his position, as a professional doing his job he shouldn’t have to deal with anything that he perceives as aggression or discrimination and it’s very likely that your initial reaction to him came across as one or both. Not that your reaction was unreasonable, but you were the person prior to that who had the opportunity to prevent the situation occurring. He didn’t.

However - you each then had choices about how you responded. Give the situation, as a professional he should have offloaded things to a colleague / senior staff member immediately. Not tried to continue things. Not doing that was a major short falling on his part. That merits you raising feedback for. If you do it through PALS then they should also be able to support you with finding the most effective way to avoid any similar issues occurring with being assigned to staff that are unsuitable for you.

the being told would have to wait thing is unfortunate, and there was probably a better way to convey the message but in practical terms that will have been what needed to happen. Not as a punishment but purely because he was seeing you because he was available. If you can’t see him you’ll need to wait for someone suitable to become available. There’s a constructive way to convey that message and an unhelpful way though.

TypingoftheDead · 16/10/2024 17:12

He sounds disgusting, OP, I hope you report him.

TrippySkip · 16/10/2024 17:15

ahemfem · 16/10/2024 17:02

If course I understand why. You don't know me. You don't know what I've been through.

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Why say this then?
With no context I can see why he may have been triggered into just thinking you're being sexist

TypingoftheDead · 16/10/2024 17:15

ScaryM0nster · 16/10/2024 17:11

It sounds like both you and he could have handled things better in the early stages - and you’re well aware of that.

In his position, as a professional doing his job he shouldn’t have to deal with anything that he perceives as aggression or discrimination and it’s very likely that your initial reaction to him came across as one or both. Not that your reaction was unreasonable, but you were the person prior to that who had the opportunity to prevent the situation occurring. He didn’t.

However - you each then had choices about how you responded. Give the situation, as a professional he should have offloaded things to a colleague / senior staff member immediately. Not tried to continue things. Not doing that was a major short falling on his part. That merits you raising feedback for. If you do it through PALS then they should also be able to support you with finding the most effective way to avoid any similar issues occurring with being assigned to staff that are unsuitable for you.

the being told would have to wait thing is unfortunate, and there was probably a better way to convey the message but in practical terms that will have been what needed to happen. Not as a punishment but purely because he was seeing you because he was available. If you can’t see him you’ll need to wait for someone suitable to become available. There’s a constructive way to convey that message and an unhelpful way though.

OP wasn’t being aggressive, she was having a panic attack triggered by DV trauma. I have PTSD myself so I do understand why OP wouldn’t have been in the right headspace to react rationally. It’s his problem if he found that insulting instead of understanding why his (vulnerable) patient reacted in such a way. Don’t understand why this male midwife doesn’t expect some women to not want to see him, or why they might be a bit shocked if they go into the appointment not expecting a male midwife. The whole thing sounds awful for OP and he was unprofessional at the least.

Original poster

ThisBrickWriter · 16/10/2024 17:16

piccolorhinoceros · 16/10/2024 16:32

There are a lot of things not adding up. Why were there three nurses in a room with a midwife? If the unit was closing why was the waiting room full? Was OP possibly verbally abusive and unaware of it due to her panic?

The early pregnancy unit at St. George’s Hospital is in the middle of multiple units. The waiting room is for multiple different services. There isn’t a single waiting room. There are three different help desks in the middle of this area and a café. There is a waiting room for blood draws and gynecology and lymphedema and everything else under the sun. I don’t care whether you believe me or not. The nurses might just be health assistance, but their women in uniform in the room. All they have is a name tag that says hi I’m X.

OP posts:

Original poster

ThisBrickWriter · 16/10/2024 17:18

ahemfem · 16/10/2024 16:33

Same. I'd check the cctv and just double check as you were quite panicky at the time so just get an outsiders sense of perspective before you persue. If it's as you remember go in guns blazing so to speak

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I am absolutely certain this man shouted at me and shouted at me multiple times. I’m absolutely certain he said he had history of panic attack while shouting at me. I’m absolutely certain without a doubt that no one helped me while I was distressed.

OP posts:

ahemfem · 16/10/2024 17:19

TrippySkip · 16/10/2024 17:15

Why say this then?
With no context I can see why he may have been triggered into just thinking you're being sexist

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Because he has no context and probably just thinks oh another person being sexist. I'm not saying she was sexist was I. Nuance.