Telegraph - Patient safety fears as NHS allows trans sex offenders in female-only wards

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www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/08/02/safety-fears-patients-nhs-allows-trans-sex-offenders-female/

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Good but horrifying article about NHS guidelines that not only put women at risk but also champion the adoption of very draconian, punitive measures aimed at women and/or staff who raise concerns or complain.

This is horrifying. We are effectively doing away with sex based spaces for women altogether, yet the reasons for all of them remain exactly the same as before!

Oh great. How far does this need to go before anyone engages their brain.

Cannot get much more vulnerable than being in hospital

Unless the patient is currently prisoner receiving care in an NHS facility, how are the NHS supposed to know of the existence of sexual offences or domestic violence offences offending in order to carry out any of these 'risk assessments' ?

It is beginning to feel - and look - like a concerted attack. The risks are so blindingly obvious.
But assaults on women in 'therapeutic enviroments' - and it is only a matter of time before they happen - might create more public revulsion than the scandals from the prison estate have done. A lot of people who don't care about prisoners will worry about their female relatives in hospital. Won't they?

But assaults on women in 'therapeutic enviroments' as a direct result of these policies, that should read.

Oh for gods sake. No way do they belong on a female ward. If anything people like that need their own room. I would discharge myself if I found out.

Once again, we have the issue that policy makers only think about sexual assaults as the potential problem with this.

Women surely do still have the human right to privacy and dignity, as well as safety.

I think it was established by one of the cases this year (was it Ann Sinnott’s, or the prison case?), that we are not going to get any of this changed via judicial review, but we may if we get a test case by someone who has been harmed as a result of of one of these policies.

They would then have to sue for damages on an individual basis, but that might lead to changes in policies. Presumably, we need to make them fear a tsunami of claims.

It also shows that the Equality Act is not fit for purpose. It does nothing to protect women. We really need to get campaigning for a separate act, to afford women the right to single sex spaces.

Melrose

I haven't checked but the telegraph presumably have. And it seems to be part of the policy specifically.

Which must mean

There's enough instances for it to warrant a specific mention in the guidance

Or, they think it could be in the future

Or, they felt it was important enough that it should be in the guidance

Dunno.

Those in prison, young offenders units, do go to hosp if injured and it's sadly there's a lot of violence and self harm in the male estate plus maybe serious situations from drugs.

If it's a trust with a hosp near s big prison it might be fairly common.

My mum worked in a hosp no prisons near here and got people from prison in.

I suppose they need the same things as anyone else that may involve overnight or more. Surgery etc.

'It also shows that the Equality Act is not fit for purpose. It does nothing to protect women'

It is pretty fine tbh.

Problem is there's been a campaign of misinformation.

EA says that if good reason then blanket rule of male/ female only is AOK.

Loads of effort has been put into telling a massive number of orgs that it can only be done at individual level. So risk assess each person who comes along who is opposite sex.

The part quoted on this thread shows that in action. And it's a big thing right?

Blanket rule- no males. Straightforward.

By individual. Careful risk assessment. Detail. Justification for decision. Paperwork. Responsibility. What if they get it wrong? Who does it? I'd guess HCPs. This is not their job. Their area. How much info do they have? How on earth would they make that judgement? What if their decision is challenged? I mean it's a minefield. And a big overhead for already overworked people.

I notice that s lot of best practices and things everyone should do, do not seem to have any consideration about how it works in real life. And that's before you even get to the conversation about the nuts and bolts. Why it's happening in the first place.

This is actually nauseating.

a number of them order medics to call the police and report a hate crime if patients do not accept another person’s gender identity.

Well that’s stupid

This is so frightening, and frankly threatening towards women in hospital. One Hospital Trust advocates withholding treatment from patients (women) who 'discriminate against a trans person'. When discomfort or fear can be reported as Hate Crimes, what is the standard for 'discrimination? Surely withholding treatment cannot be lawful and can be challenged? That is a monstrous policy.

^'The Telegraph has analysed policies issued by more than 20 trusts in England and has found that a number of them order medics to call the police and report a hate crime if patients do not accept another person’s gender identity.

In guidance from University Hospitals Birmingham, still available on their website, it states that “treatment may also be withheld” if a patient discriminates against a trans person.'*

In guidance from University Hospitals Birmingham, still available on their website, it states that “treatment may also be withheld” if a patient discriminates against a trans person.'*

“Discriminate” in this sentence means “does not go along with the pretence that a man who says he is a woman is literally a woman”. In other words, someone who cannot or will not lie when ordered to.

If these policies are left to stand, we are actually now living under a totalitarian regime.

So if you are distressed by the presence of a man on your ward, where you may be required to use a commode etc, you are not allowed to speak.

I'm sure there is a word for this...

Meanwhile wasn't sexual assault of women in hosp esp longer term in the news recently?

Already mixed sex nothing to do with trans in psychiatric wards. Really bad cos so many women in mental health bad place cos of violence and sexual abuse. I was nearly sectioned when domestic violence made me come across as mentally ill. It was trauma and distress and fear from abuse and not being safe. Last thing I needed was being in unsafe psychiatric ward. All I needed and still need is safe place of my own to live. Lucky for me I had GP who understood what was really happening to me. She was able to stop me being wrongly seen as mentally ill except PTSD, although she can't help me leave the violent situation not her fault as she's not domestic abuse advocate but sorry that's separate issue.

Other women who are in genuinely need of psychiatric in patient definitely not helped or safe to be in mixed sex wards. More trauma being with sometimes violent men and also rapes happen in psychiatric wards but nothing changed and still mixed sex.

Another example of Stonewall's equality index in real life

Also in the Times today:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ebb83282-f3e8-11eb-8f01-2c678acbb979?shareToken=63b3da9aa8851dc86d2dcdb3f5d404e7

The Mail also covering this:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9854261/Convicts-born-male-identify-female-placed-women-wards.html

Related thread
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4267939-Working-with-Stonewall-is-no-longer-compatible-with-NHS-values-Comment-Health-Service-Journal

By individual. Careful risk assessment. Detail. Justification for decision. Paperwork. Responsibility. What if they get it wrong? Who does it? I'd guess HCPs. This is not their job. Their area. How much info do they have? How on earth would they make that judgement? What if their decision is challenged? I mean it's a minefield. And a big overhead for already overworked people.

Often when hospitals are full and patients are queues up in A&E for beds it will be a bed manager (in my hospital they are just low grade administrators) who will designate where a patient goes. I was forced to remove a dying patient from a single room to the ward bay to make way for a patient who was an infection risk needing a single room.
And as pp have said, unless it is an admission from the prison estate no one will know about a history of violence or sex offending. In fact even where someone is accompanied by prison wardens or police with handcuffs confidentiality usually means you don't get to hear their crime unless one of the escorts is a gossip.

Why are hospitals exempt from the 2010 Equalities Act?

Working with Stonewall incompatible with NHS values
www.hsj.co.uk/workforce/working-with-stonewall-is-no-longer-compatible-with-nhs-values/7030259.article

"Nurses speak of their distress at being instructed to insist to their female patients that there are no men present, in the clear presence of a man identifying as a woman. Who can they turn to when their employer, union and regulator are all Stonewall Champions?"

@Jocasta2018

Why are hospitals exempt from the 2010 Equalities Act?

They aren’t. They very much aren’t. However, NHSEI guidance on mixed sex accommodation was changed to accommodate transgender people’s preferences in 2019. The specific requirements are on page 12.

www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/05/NEW-Delivering_same_sex_accommodation_sep2019.pdf