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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Telegraph - Patient safety fears as NHS allows trans sex offenders in female-only wards

111 replies

OvaHere · 03/08/2021 00:08

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/08/02/safety-fears-patients-nhs-allows-trans-sex-offenders-female/

archive.vn/cWKxb

Good but horrifying article about NHS guidelines that not only put women at risk but also champion the adoption of very draconian, punitive measures aimed at women and/or staff who raise concerns or complain.

OP posts:
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Ereshkigalangcleg · 03/08/2021 09:04

We have to keep making it crystal clear to all that that is what is going on. For me that has to start with not using obfuscatory terms like "trans woman". They are male.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 03/08/2021 09:05

The contempt for women is astonishing.

ArabellaScott · 03/08/2021 09:08

Every time I read stuff like this I feel it in my gut, it's like a visceral punch. It takes a bit of time to regather.

Yes, the gaslighting, the cruelty, the sheer vindictiveness. The woman-hate just shines out of these policies.

ArabellaScott · 03/08/2021 09:10

It's bullying, I suppose. You can tell by reading that that the person who wrote the guidance hates women. I can read the cold rage in the subtext. The fact that it has presumably been read and approved by other people and become NHS guidance - NHS! - is what really makes my blood run cold.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 03/08/2021 09:10

Yes, the gaslighting, the cruelty, the sheer vindictiveness. The woman-hate just shines out of these policies.

You know why that is, don't you? It's because public bodies outsource writing these policies to lobby groups filled with TRAs and no one within the organisation would dare to raise a concern for women and girls around this issue for fear of being targeted by their own woke colleagues.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 03/08/2021 09:11

I x posted with you Arabella but yes that is what I meant to say.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 03/08/2021 09:13

"Where ... is admitted and has a history of sex offending, decisions regarding risk should include consideration of whether they are being prescribed anti-libidinal medication that would be expected to reduce sexual risk,” the document states".

I thought that rape was about power and woman-hating and not sex (desire). This just buys into the old sexist and patriarchal trope that men rape because of 'urges'.

Melroses · 03/08/2021 09:13

[quote R0wantrees]Dr Jane Hamlin, president of the Beaumont Society, a trans support group, said: “If anyone starts off with an assumption that a trans person is a sex offender - or even a potential sex offender - that is discrimination and transphobia.

from link above,

'How I learnt to accept that my husband is now a woman called Jane'
By Daily Mail'
published Nov 27, 2019

(extract)
"Most marriages hit a few bumps. But 72-year-old Barbara Hamlin's has weathered one of the most challenging upheavals.

Five years ago, her husband John had gender reassignment surgery to become Jane, no 71.

Here, he couple from Somerset, UK, explain how they maintained their relationship...
A denim mini skirt, hotpants, a collection of women’s lacy lingerie and a pair of black patent stilettos. My head was spinning as I rummaged through the bag I’d found at the back of our wardrobe. (continues)

Our married life was blissful before John’s revelation.
Both primary school teachers in Somerset, we had met at work, and got together after he split up with his wife, the mother of his son and daughter. Then 40, I had split from my own first husband two years before.
John and I never wanted a family of our own, because John already had children and I had never had a strong maternal instinct.
Looking back, the only possible clue to John’s future self was the fact that he always had clean, neatly manicured nails. He was happy to go shopping for clothes with me, but that never struck me as unusual.
I could see why he hadn’t felt able to tell me; if he had mentioned all this before we got together, I don’t think I would have pursued the relationship." (continues)
archive.is/GEJuj#selection-1711.0-1727.153

H/t Genevieve Gluck mobile.twitter.com/WomenReadWomen[/quote]
I am glad you posted this.

Because, for some reason, in spite of the big clue in the name of the society represented, I had incorrectly assumed the sex of the person involved.

Now the quotes in the article make sense.

October2020 · 03/08/2021 09:15

Jane Hamlin was an excellent lecturer at a primary teaching university. This is quite the career change.

Melroses · 03/08/2021 09:20

Melroses

Unless the patient is currently prisoner receiving care in an NHS facility, how are the NHS supposed to know of the existence of sexual offences or domestic violence offences offending in order to carry out any of these 'risk assessments'?

JellySlice:

If wards were strictly sex-segregated, they would not need to know. Not in the vast majority of cases.

Presumably the only way of carrying out these guidelines would be to DBS everyone before they are admitted (with immediate access to DBS in the case of emergency admissions).

It would be much simpler and cheaper to segregate on the basis of sex.

R0wantrees · 03/08/2021 09:32

"Where ... is admitted and has a history of sex offending, decisions regarding risk should include consideration of whether they are being prescribed anti-libidinal medication that would be expected to reduce sexual risk,” the document states".

The only 'risk' that is being considered worthy here is that a male sexual offender may rape a female patient. The impact on female patients' well-being, privacy and dignity, whilst at their most vulnerable having to share a ward, showers and toilets with convicted male sexual offenders, is not considered let alone addressed.

LemonRoses · 03/08/2021 09:36

It’s not only about sex offences though, is it? It’s about how women feel sleeping, washing, being catheterised or being examined in an area where there are trans women patients too.

A devoutly religious woman might feel very uncomfortable sleeping beside a stranger who was clearly born a man.
A young 16 year old girl feel very uncomfortable sharing a bay with two adults with male genitalia visible.
A woman being admitted might feel very uncomfortable talking about her periods, sexual activity or breasts with just a thin disposable curtain between her and a man.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 03/08/2021 09:42

YY Lemon and R0.

Leafstamp · 03/08/2021 09:45

Template letter here:

mobile.twitter.com/sleeepysandy/status/1422475320444268589

Channel you inner Baroness Nicholson and get writing!

R0wantrees · 03/08/2021 09:48

It would be much simpler and cheaper to segregate on the basis of sex.

NHS records do not accurately record the sex of patients. They were intended to record sex and where applicable gender [identity] however sex was migrated to the 'gender' data field where it could be altered at the request/demand of patients. This is despite 2009 NHS assessments identifying the serious risks of doing so.

'Sex, Gender & the NHS part 2: Your Medical Record and your Ladybrain'
Anne Harper-Wright
Nov 13, 2018
(extract)
Q: How does the NHS make the distinction between sex and gender on our medical records?
A: They’re supposed to record BOTH.
The NHS is legally obligated to respect a person’s ‘gender identity’, should they declare one. Why? A person’s inner feminine or masculine feelings has no bearing on their medical treatment. It’s because with the advent of the GRA 2004 and the Equality Act of 2010, the law enshrined the concept of gender identity, then gender reassignment, alongside the biological reality of sex. If a hospital is at risk of a lawsuit for failing to acknowledge a person’s protected characteristic of gender reassignment, (which may be solely the declaration of feelings, nothing more) it will capture extra ‘gender’ data to sit alongside the sex data, for those circumstances where a patient feels they have both a sex, and a gender. But the ‘gender’ data should be incremental, added only for those patients who want it. It certainly isn’t and should never be a replacement for bodily sex, not where medical records are concerned. Obviously.

Woe betide a medical system that takes gender affirmation so far as to completely ignore and overwrite sex. Biological sex is immutable, and medical treatment of the sexes differs by necessity between males and females. Male and female anatomy, genetics, reproductive organs, diseases, blood test reference ranges, response to drugs are different. (continues)

The NHS Sex and Gender Standards
After the GRA 2004 was made law, an NHS exercise was commenced, to standardise patient information and data within the various IT systems across the NHS. Within this exercise a suite of documentation was created, dedicated to designing a system architecture that could attempt to cope with the challenges specific to using BOTH sex AND gender as data.
One of the main documents was called the Common User Interface — Sex and Current Gender Input and Display.
The consequences of an NHS mix up between sex and gender were recognised as dire.

“The term ‘Gender’ is now considered too ambiguous to be desirable or safe” (continues)

And the documentation prescribing the architecture of the systems is liberally peppered with warnings about the consequences of conflating the two. Sex and Gender are NOT the same thing, and confusion has serious consequences. (continues)

Having ascertained what the sex fields and gender fields are in our medical records, and having read the NHS documents determining how the data should be entered and used, I was confident that my own personal medical record would reflect the safety guidance. And perhaps look something like the linked examples above:
e.g. Sex = Female, Gender = unknown.
I submitted my Subject Access Request to my local hospital to look at my own medical record data.

And what I found was this.
My personal medical record sex field is BLANK. Unpopulated.
In a disturbing turn of events, the hospital that cared for me in pregnancy and childbirth, twice, doesn’t know what physical sex I am.
(continues)

I think the NHS should probably urgently consider that whilst their sex and gender design guidance was exemplary, their execution of it has failed, horribly, and that failure is now exposing patients to actual, physical risk.

The NHS have monumentally screwed up here. There are very real risks to having patient medical records that do not capture sex, but which instead log only purported masculine or feminine feelings, changeable at will, or at the careless keystroke of an administrative assistant or busy healthcare professional. And a field which can be altered and edited easily is a field which exposes a patient to risk. Should sex be easily editable? No, it should be cast-iron locked down, and it should be the field used for every significant clinical application. And it should be sex, not gender that is the measure used to analyse patient outcomes for diseases, treatments. And it should be sex, not gender, that is the characteristic used to segregate wards for privacy." (continues)
medium.com/@anneharperwright/sex-gender-the-nhs-bb86b0c3ebb

Telegraph - Patient safety fears as NHS allows trans sex offenders in female-only wards
Telegraph - Patient safety fears as NHS allows trans sex offenders in female-only wards
ArabellaScott · 03/08/2021 09:49

You know what, though, I'm an agnostic, no religion, I'm liberal and experienced and open minded. Not prudish, not especially shy.

I dont want to share a ward with a male when I am vulnerable. That's all. No special circumstances, I'm an average woman.

R0wantrees · 03/08/2021 10:01

@LemonRoses

It’s not only about sex offences though, is it? It’s about how women feel sleeping, washing, being catheterised or being examined in an area where there are trans women patients too.

A devoutly religious woman might feel very uncomfortable sleeping beside a stranger who was clearly born a man.
A young 16 year old girl feel very uncomfortable sharing a bay with two adults with male genitalia visible.
A woman being admitted might feel very uncomfortable talking about her periods, sexual activity or breasts with just a thin disposable curtain between her and a man.

I doubt any female patient would feel comfortable on a single-sex hospital ward with a male patient regardless of the male patient's gender identity.

I also doubt that the majority of male patients would wish to share single-sex accomodation with female patients.

All of the major political parties identified single-sex hospital accomodation as an important policy. This has been a target indicator for many years and hospital trusts are required to submit data confirming compliance.

Every former minister who has announced success in achieving single-sex NHS accomodation should be held to account.

ibid. Anne Harper-Wright
(extract)
"The claim: Elimination of Mixed Sex wards.
In 2010, to great fanfare, Health Secretary Andrew Lansley of the Conservative party announced the Coalition Government’s laudable commitment to place all NHS hospital patients in single-sex wards — with any mixed sex breaches made public and financial penalties imposed.

“It should be more than an expectation, it should be a requirement that patients who are admitted should be admitted to single-sex accommodation,” the Health Secretary told BBC Radio 4’s PM programme.
“Patients should be in single-sex accommodation, meaning that all of their period that they are admitted they should be in a bed or a bay which only consists of people of the same sex.
“And they should be able to come and go, for example to all their washing and toilet facilities, without having to pass through a part of the ward or another ward where there might be people of a different sex… so to that extent they would have the kind of privacy and dignity people have a right to expect.”
And he added:
“Patients should not suffer the indignity of being cared for in mixed-sex accommodation. I am determined to put an end to this practice, where it is not clinically justified.” (continues)

The truth: “The policy commitment relates to gender, not sex”.

Despite what the public were told, the policy was always explicitly based upon segregating by ‘gender’ and not sex, right from its inception.
NHS documents and records dated from 2010 show that before the policy was implemented, whilst still in its design stages, the specifications always related to gender, not sex. And yet the name of the policy, and all references to it to the general public were explicitly instructed to be sex, not gender. The opposite of the truth.

The deliberate use of the word SEX to name the policy, whilst using GENDER to facilitate it, was a Department of Health mandate from Andrew Lansley.

The NHS Information Standards Team who were tasked with creating the infrastructure to execute monitoring and reporting on breaches of this policy understood their task. To utilise patient data relating to gender, not sex. To segregate wards by assumed or self-declared ‘gender’, not sex. Discussions at that time between the NHS team and the DOH left no doubt; what was being created was a standard that measured breaches in mixed-gender, not mixed sex wards. Mixing people of differently sexed bodies was acceptable, whilst ‘psyches’ were separated.

The NHS team told the Department of Health that the name of this policy was misleading. They insisted it should truthfully be called “Eliminating Mixed Gender Accommodation’. A source within the NHS confirmed that they fully understood that this policy related to gender, but that the DOH was explicit in its directive:
Segregate wards by gender. But definitely tell people it is by sex. “To ensure a better public understanding”. (continues)

medium.com/@anneharperwright/sex-gender-the-nhs-1e8f4e6363a6

Crouton19 · 03/08/2021 10:02

Presumably this will apply whether or not the patient has a GRC? It’s self-ID by the back door!

PigeonPink · 03/08/2021 10:12

I would be fine about sharing space with a post-op trans woman. What I have a problem with is penises. I don’t want penises in my space when I’m vulnerable or undressed, regardless of who they’re attached to or what the owner’s gender is. I find it shocking that I would be refused treatment because I don’t feel comfortable about having a penis wafted in front of me.

R0wantrees · 03/08/2021 10:14

Presumably this will apply whether or not the patient has a GRC? It’s self-ID by the back door!

The sex/gender data in NHS records are changed without a patient having a GRC. The GRC requires 'evidence' of having lived as if the opposite sex so having changed NHS record and acquired a passport etc with opposite sex data would be expected. GPs who provide the supporting form for passports and action change of sex/gender on medical records will have no way of judging who will/intends to obtain a GRC in the future.

Since 2004 approximately 6000 GRCs have been issued.

R0wantrees · 03/08/2021 10:18

@PigeonPink

I would be fine about sharing space with a post-op trans woman. What I have a problem with is penises. I don’t want penises in my space when I’m vulnerable or undressed, regardless of who they’re attached to or what the owner’s gender is. I find it shocking that I would be refused treatment because I don’t feel comfortable about having a penis wafted in front of me.
For many women the issue is their privacy and dignity. Regardless of what surgery a male patient has had they will not want to be observed whilst vulnerable, sleeping and/or in state of undress by patients of the opposite sex.
GrandmaMazur · 03/08/2021 10:48

Self-ID isn’t law in this country is it or have I missed something?

So how is it that vulnerable women in prisons, in hospitals are being forced to live with it as if it is law and if they complain they are branded as bigots or even criminals?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 03/08/2021 10:50

So how is it that vulnerable women in prisons, in hospitals are being forced to live with it as if it is law and if they complain they are branded as bigots or even criminals?

Good question. Trans lobbying groups have brought in self ID by the back door, with no or inadequate equality impact assessment.

Nonmaquillee · 03/08/2021 10:51

@GrandmaMazur

Self-ID isn’t law in this country is it or have I missed something?

So how is it that vulnerable women in prisons, in hospitals are being forced to live with it as if it is law and if they complain they are branded as bigots or even criminals?

This is the crux of the matter.
Chickenyhead · 03/08/2021 11:00

Since the court ruling in Land rover stating that transgender people need not take any action to change sex. I believe we are living in gender no man's land currently. Very scary as one side is more scary than the other.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/jamiewareham/2020/09/16/non-binary-people-protected-by-equality-act-in-landmark-ruling-against-jaguar-land-rover/amp/

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