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“57% of women support self ID”

(66 Posts)
ACatWhoBinds Sat 11-Jul-20 14:59:49

A YouGov poll, shown in this Huff Post article, reported that the majority of women support self ID for trans folk. I wondered what everyone’s opinion on it is. I know we probably don’t see eye to eye on this issue but I like to listen to views different to mine smile

OP’s posts: |
MsMarvellous Sat 11-Jul-20 15:03:32

Saw thus on twitter. When the question is phrased more specifically and clarified then the results are very different...

Oxyiz Sat 11-Jul-20 15:09:13

Interesting. I wonder what was actually asked and understood by "self id".

truthisarevolutionaryact Sat 11-Jul-20 15:09:14

Do you think that people be allowed to self ID - yes.
Do you think that a 40 year old male self identifying as a woman should be allowed to share the female changing rooms with your 12 year old daughter? - **!!

Depends how you ask the question.

sleepyhead Sat 11-Jul-20 15:09:22

Well I support people identifying as whatever they like, but I dont believe men can become women or should be in women's spaces.

So I guess I support self id (want to self id as a banana - crack on!), but I don't support a change in the GRA to allow people to gain legal recognition on the basis of that self id alone.

Oxyiz Sat 11-Jul-20 15:11:00

In fact when you think that most people won't see the risks behind it all, and will just want to be kind, I'm surprised the number isn't higher.

morningtoncrescent62 Sat 11-Jul-20 15:11:01

Is there any more information on how the question was framed? I'd like to see what people were actually asked before I speculate on the results.

Falleninwiththewrongcrowd Sat 11-Jul-20 15:12:40

The YouGov poll (commissied by PinkNews) also shows that support for self-id has gone down since they asked the same question a year ago. They're keeping quiet about that though.

Michelleoftheresistance Sat 11-Jul-20 15:13:46

I support self ID. I'm all for anyone identifying as they want, presenting as they want, do what makes you happy. And lets get rid of GRCs.

What I don't support is that TWAW, legal fiction of sex change, or any males in female single sex spaces: instead creating third spaces and a clear difference in law between sex and gender.

ScrimpshawTheSecond Sat 11-Jul-20 15:14:42

This is the pinknews survey. As has been said, yougov can phrase survey questions to ensure the commissioner gets the answer they're looking for.

Wings over scotland had a survey with some more detailed questions on the practical application of the proposed changes. The numbers were very, very different.

Artesia Sat 11-Jul-20 15:15:14

Surely that stat is misleading - it’s actually “ 57% of people who identify their gender as being female support self id”. Which is entirely different- the respondents could have been 100% natal male. Which just demonstrates how ridiculous and circular the whole charade has become.

ShinyFootball Sat 11-Jul-20 15:16:10

I looked for the question

'Do you think a person should or should not be able to self-identify as a gender different to the one they were born in?'

I mean I would say yes
The missing word is 'legally'
And a lot of people won't realise everything that flows from that

Falleninwiththewrongcrowd Sat 11-Jul-20 15:17:52

June 2019: 56% support for self id
June 2020: 50% support

skql Sat 11-Jul-20 15:20:00

Michelleoftheresistance

self id means other pp have to accept that id.
(or the one lives in isolate island.)

what i understand self id means twaw.

am i wrong?

hard to understnad.

OvaHere Sat 11-Jul-20 15:20:47

You can't stop people identifying as anything. It's how far legal support should go that's in question.

There are a small minority of adults who self identify as children, we can't prevent what they believe about themselves but we have no obligation to make it legal for them to attend primary school.

DuDuDuLangaLangaBingBong Sat 11-Jul-20 15:21:39

ShinyFootball

I looked for the question

'Do you think a person should or should not be able to self-identify as a gender different to the one they were born in?'

I mean I would say yes
The missing word is 'legally'
And a lot of people won't realise everything that flows from that

This.

I self ID as an aging goth but that shouldn’t have any influence on the law or my non-goth neighbours/ non-goth children at my kids’ schools.

‘Should a man be able to self ID as a woman for all intents and purposes under U.K. law’ would get a very different answer. Pink News knows this and so do the government.

This yougov poll is a non story.

thatwouldbeanecumenicalmatter Sat 11-Jul-20 15:23:14

A YouGov poll, shown in this Huff Post article, reported that the majority of women support self ID

Majority of what? What's a woman?

So it seems being a woman counts when useful to provide stats (of the majority of only the women polled, not the entire country)

And yes a rather different story to the stats MsMarvellous provided.

sourdoughismyreligion Sat 11-Jul-20 15:23:25

docs.cdn.yougov.com/ogu5gtx9us/PinkNewsResults_200629_Education_Selfidentity.pdf

I can only find this on yougov. They only asked the one question?

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius Sat 11-Jul-20 15:23:53

I suspect that what this poll actually shows is that 57% of women who haven’t been told all the negative consequences of self-ID are in favour of it.

Flimflamfloogety Sat 11-Jul-20 15:23:59

Is it possible the 'women' that we're polled included trans women and thus artificially inflated the figure?

gardenbird48 Sat 11-Jul-20 15:24:06

I think The Times did a poll recently on this and got approx. 95% against. I agree with posters above - people can identify as whatever they would like but they can't expect their perception of self to override the provisions of the EA 2010.
I am rereading Oliver Sacks' The Man Who Mistook His Wife For a Hat - it is fascinating what perceptions the human mind can construct that seem utterly real to the subject - that doesn't make them real to anyone else and the genderists seem to be the only group with a mismatch between their perception of themselves and material reality that expect everyone else to agree with them.

Onestepup Sat 11-Jul-20 15:25:10

If we cannot self-ID as another ethnicity, age, height, etc. then why should it be acceptable to self-ID as the opposite sex? Either they're all incorrect or none are.

CharlieParley Sat 11-Jul-20 15:25:22

Here is the question Yougov asked for PinkNews:

Do you think a person should or should not be able to self-identify as a gender different to the one they were born in?

Contrary to the triumphant reporting, I'm concerned that only just over half answered this question with a yes. You'd be hard pressed to find a majority of posters here on FWR answering that with a No.

Removing the gender woo and rephrasing in plain English, this is what the question means:

Do you think a person should or should not be able to identify with the sex stereotypes and sex role stereotypes of the opposite sex to their own?

Collectively, our answer here tends to be knock yourself out, champ, these stereotypes are bollocks anyway.

Here's what Pink News et al. are pretending it means:

Do you think a person should or should not be able to legally change their sex to the opposite sex (with all the legal consequences that entails), via a self-declaration process?

The answer to that, both here and generally in the public is a resounding NO.

Rather dishonestly, PinkNews et al. are misrepresenting a majority yes to the stereotype question as a majority yes to the legal question.

As MsMarvellous demonstrates so distinctly with the much more clearly defined questions she posted (from a poll done at the same time by the same pollster), the truth is that repeated polling on the legal question shows a majority of the British public are opposed.

wellbehavedwomen Sat 11-Jul-20 15:25:28

ShinyFootball

I looked for the question

'Do you think a person should or should not be able to self-identify as a gender different to the one they were born in?'

I mean I would say yes
The missing word is 'legally'
And a lot of people won't realise everything that flows from that

Yes.

I would 100% agree that someone should be able to do that. It should go without saying, in fact.

I 100% disagree that someone should be able to change their status in law, and make it very much more difficult for women to retain single sex provision, based on that personal sense of identity.

The question's phrasing drives the responses. They know this. It's why they framed the questions as they did.

ShinyFootball Sat 11-Jul-20 15:28:03

Well I can self id as anything I like.

Doesn't mean anyone has to accept it and doesn't change the facts about who I am in law.

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