“57% of women support self ID”

[ACatWhoBinds]

A YouGov poll, shown in this Huff Post article, reported that the majority of women support self ID for trans folk. I wondered what everyone’s opinion on it is. I know we probably don’t see eye to eye on this issue but I like to listen to views different to mine

Yes of course the question is phrased in order to get the most positive response.

Based on the question about access to female changing rooms, it seems the majority do not actually support self ID. It would be interesting to know what people think about post op trans women being in women’s spaces and whether they see them as women. I personally, have no issue with that, but would like to know what other women in general (outside of mumsnet) think about it.

The research by YouGov for PinkNews also revealed that only 18 percent of all voters agree with government plans to let transgender people change their legal gender without a doctor’s approval

www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/07/02/exclusive-just-13-of-tory-voters-agree-with-governments-proposed-transgender-policy/

Pink News did this survey two years back and did not like the results, ever since they have been massaging the questions to get the results they prefer.

There are lies, damned lies and Pink News articles

@ShinyFootball

I looked for the question

'Do you think a person should or should not be able to self-identify as a gender different to the one they were born in?'

I mean I would say yes
The missing word is 'legally'
And a lot of people won't realise everything that flows from that

When you see the actual question then 57% is actually quite low, I imagine if you inserted the word “legally” and explained that the majority of these people would not have surgery or hormones then you’d get a completely different number.

I think people should be able to dress, present and call themselves however they like, but they should use the services appropriate to their biological sex. More money and effort should be put into breaking down stereotypes and reducing male violence.

What does born into a gender even mean?

I think that considering a) how successful the trans lobby has been in - by it's own gleeful admission - stifling debate and b) how conditioned women are to put everyone else's interests before their own, that it's really quite remarkable that they've only managed 57% agreement to a question that was as wide as my post-lockdown arse.

It will be very interesting to see what happens as the sunlight gets in.

Surprised so low given question. Helen Staniland had a survey done with direct questions . It is her pinned tweet.
mobile.twitter.com/helenstaniland?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

OP?

The problem with allowing men to self-ID as women is that it affects all women, not just the 57% who agree with it. You then have a substantial minority of women and girls who are compelled to share changing room space, toilets, domestic violence refuges etc with male-bodied people regardless of the fact that they don't want to. Is that really something Prick News thinks is desirable? (Obviously yes, but would they want to admit it?)

Even if the people answering understood the implications of self id, even if the poll had posed the question in a way that wasn't misleading, and even if there weren't other polls giving very different results - 43% of women being against self id or unsure is still a hell of a lot more than the entire number of transgender people in Britain, isn't it?

Ask the real question.

Get the real answers.

Well I support people being able to 'self ID' their 'gender'. Why on earth not.

But where I differ from PN, is I do not believe thinking people should be able to break free of stereotypes means men should have womens rights. Nor that gender has any bearing whatsoever on sex based rights.

Also yeah, asking the question about single sex spaces and such, the majority are against doing away with them. When TRA types mean basically ending sex segregation when they say 'self ID', they mean something totally different to what most think it means.

Annoys me how even TRAs agree gender and sex are different things. Yet they keep attempting to fudge the two purposely. 'Yes, sex and gender are not the same thing, so of course self ID of gender means access to single sex spaces of the opposite sex'

Rewinding to a few years back, it was pretty straightforward for the trans activists. They could propose just about anything and it would get uncritical and automatic acceptance with no push-back that mattered. There were critical voices but these were mostly lost in the noise.

The smart and strategic of the trans activists must be really pissed off when they think about how widening the trans umbrella and bringing in the narcissists, misogynists, and fetishists has tarnished their "campaign for trans rights", and has broken the first rule of trans activist club: Keep as much of the campaigning as possible invisible to the public.

The smart and strategic of the trans activists must be really pissed off when they think about how widening the trans umbrella and bringing in the narcissists, misogynists, and fetishists has tarnished their "campaign for trans rights", and has broken the first rule of trans activist club: Keep as much of the campaigning as possible invisible to the public.

I wonder if this was the real reason Ruth Hunt left Stonewall so suddenly?

They didn't tell the truth. See

wingsoverscotland.com/transforming-the-question/

To use that wonderful English phrase.

They've got caught with their trousers down, innit.

The crowd are not throwing petals at the Emporer and his entourage.

@zanahoria

What does born into a gender even mean?

Exactly, i don't think anyone should be presupposing anyone was assigned a gender at birth - it's important to use "sex" and "gender" correctly

@ShinyFootball

Well I can self id as anything I like.

Doesn't mean anyone has to accept it and doesn't change the facts about who I am in law.

What Shiny said...

I’m sorry... the irony! Why would they ask women if there is no such thing as women?!

I guess under 25s weren’t included in this survey

Lol

Others get to decide what women are as usual.

If eg jrk said she was non binary and therefore trans, would that be accepted no questions? Would it fuck.

Pink News did this survey two years back and did not like the results, ever since they have been massaging the questions to get the results they prefer.

This. What are your thoughts on that, OP?

Pink News asked a clear question which made people think about the ramifications of self ID. People said no. They haven't made that mistake again.

I guess under 25s weren’t included in this survey

They were included (18-24) in the 2018 survey, and they still said no to legal self ID.