The Times: Feminists celebrate U-turn on self-identification in Scotland as women’s prisons review trans policy

[TimeLady]

Women’s rights activists hope the victory will trigger a rethink in England and Wales

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/feminists-celebrate-u-turn-on-self-identification-in-scotland-as-women-s-prisons-review-trans-policy-gr3vtzwj9?shareToken=66c4b70d2d576c49e7e57d6ed0c3a801

What a fantastic start to the day!

The Sunday Times has learnt that Scotland’s prison service, which already has a de facto self-identification policy, is to review it after a whistleblower said the tiny number of trans prisoners in Scotland’s female jails had been responsible for a “quite horrific” number of incidents towards women inmates, including threats of rape.

Well done that brave whistleblower. Women in prisons are entitled to feel safe and be protected against male violence under international human rights guidelines. Our prison services have been failing women in the UK.

P.14 “Women prisoners shall be detained separately from male prisoners.104”

www.ohchr.org/Documents/Publications/training11Add3en.pdf

It’s weird though that anyone with any sense could see what would happen

Imuagine being trapped in a place 24 hours a day with a man who is threatening you

Why do women have to be hurt before someone sees sense

The group Engender, which calls itself “Scotland’s feminist policy and advocacy organisation”.... Engender’s income last year was £335,000, of which £301,000 came from the Scottish government

Scottish Trans Alliance, part of the Equality Network, a state-funded LGBT lobbying body, helped to devise the policy... The Equality Network’s income last year was £466,000, of which £427,000 came from the Scottish government

I found that interesting.
Women are 51% of the population.
LGBT are less than 10% of the population.

Good piece of journalism and also great news
Well done FPFW etc!

See also: www.thetimes.co.uk/article/snp-concerned-gender-laws-are-vote-killer-f2x5smwds?fbclid=IwAR3G9vgnRZJUvo7no7vL89OuVtapnW4VfwUEDcNv5JoLhgxl1DBJNNxBnOY

Excerpts:

Controversial reform of gender law in Scotland is unlikely to take effect for at least two years, The Sunday Times has learnt.

Their preference is for a draft bill to be published towards the end of this year or early 2020, which would almost certainly delay the new law until after the next election. The disclosure will dismay equality campaigners who expect the draft bill to be drawn up swiftly when MSPs return to parliament after the summer.

The Scottish government has said it is committed to updating the Gender Recognition Act but that new legislation will only be introduced after further consultation is held to build “maximum consensus”.

A senior SNP source told this newspaper of a growing consensus within party ranks to prevent the law from taking effect before May 2021.

Fantastic news.

I still remain shocked that there are people who couldn't see/chose to ignore the inevitable.

Engender’s income last year was £335,000, of which £301,000 came from the Scottish government

More on this here:

twitter.com/DidyouRedo/status/1143247909762342913?s=19

Effectively ScotGov is paying orgs to lobby ScotGov (and paying some orgs multiple times under multiple names)

Excellent article.

I liked the inclusion of Dolatowski, prison, the school guidance and Bex Stinson's comment about working behind closed doors.

Actually, I liked all of it.

But there is ... a concerted campaign trying to roll back the existing legal rights of trans people. women”

James, I have fixed it for you.

James Morton, of the Scottish Trans Alliance, said: “We appreciate that there are genuinely held concerns about gender recognition reform and we have always been happy to engage in discussion to resolve those concerns. But there is also a concerted campaign trying to roll back the existing legal rights of trans people.”

"we have always been happy to engage in discussion"

Oh really? What was 'no debate' about then?

Oh really? What was 'no debate' about then

Bugger, try again

Oh really? What was 'no debate' about then

They have always been very happy to talk to people who agree with them ...

The Sunday Times has learnt that Scotland’s prison service, which already has a de facto self-identification policy, is to review it after a whistleblower said the tiny number of trans prisoners in Scotland’s female jails had been responsible for a “quite horrific” number of incidents towards women inmates, including threats of rape.

There really isn't a responses to this which would come anywhere near adequately expressing my actual reaction.

Earlier this year, a Scottish transgender sex attacker who preyed on young girls in supermarket lavatories was sent to live in a women-only hostel.

Nor this.

They may not give a single fuck about women, and be perfectly happy allow them to be assaulted by sex offenders whilst unable to escape.

But they must be dumb as fuck to think the female electorate will accept it.

YY. It's great that these example were in the article to show that it's not all about toilets.

That DidyouRedo Twitter thread is a very interesting read. Thanks for the link.

James Morton, of the Scottish Trans Alliance, said: “We appreciate that there are genuinely held concerns about gender recognition reform and we have always been happy to engage in discussion to resolve those concerns.

No you haven't you fucking liar. You called women who had concerns 'transphobic bigots' and repeated 'no debate over and over'.

I have to say though, watching this being dragged out into the sunlight in real time and watching the back peddle begin, is really quite satisfying.

‘whistleblower said the tiny number of trans prisoners in Scotland’s female jails had been responsible for a “quite horrific” number of incidents towards women inmates, including threats of rape.’

The shocking thing is that anyone is shocked by this. It wasn’t so much foreseeable as guaranteed to happen.

That’s a really good article. I like that they state the funding sources these are publicly funded groups that are campaigning to remove women’s rights.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine

Bloody hell, that Twitter link.

What a fucking scam this all is.

Bex Stinson, who was then head of trans inclusion at the LGBT lobbyist Stonewall, said last year that the Scottish debate had been better than England’s because it “didn’t take place on the front page of newspapers and across Twitter . . . [it was] being had in rooms with people who were decision makers”.

Does Stinson really not realise how sinister this sounds?

Does Stinson really not realise how sinister this sounds?

Maybe why Stinson is no longer Head of Trans Inclusion.

Great news and well done to those amazing women who stuck their necks out and endured horrendous verbal abuse in doing so to protect the rights of women and girls when those whose job it is have failed so spectacularly.

Gregor Murray who led the campaign against Joan McAlpine is still suspended I believe.

As an aside, I do wonder why Bex Stinson has left the Stonewall gravy train. It's very curious

Haven't read the whole way through the article, but I'm reacting to some of the language used. For an article that feels sympathetic to the female POV some of the phrasing seems odd.

"Scots ministers had said they believed the current law, which demands that applicants seek a doctor’s diagnosis and live in their new gender role for two years, to be “intrusive and onerous”."

Should that not be requires ?

"New grassroots feminist groups, organised online, sprang up to fight the plans after they were backed by Scotland’s main women’s organisation, which is 90% funded by the Scottish government."

Not quite sure what that paragraph means. Who is the 'they' referred to? The grassroots feminist groups? The main women's organisation? I suspect I know the answer, but I had to puzzle at it a bit, as I have some comprehension difficulties. I can't be the only one who skim-reads.

OOPS, I bolded the wrong bit in the second paragraph, I meant to bold the bit about funding from the government. When I read that paragraph initially I thought it was the feminist groups.

More coffee required I think