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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Stonewall protest, July 5th

105 replies

ByGrabtharsHammarWhatASaving · 24/06/2019 21:47

www.standingforwomen.com/so/d4Mk9jND3?cid=136433ed-282e-43c5-a12e-864e0274e3b4#/main

I live no where near London, but it'd be great if they got a big turn out!

OP posts:
DpWm · 24/06/2019 22:09

Thanks for sharing

Supersimpkin · 24/06/2019 22:10

' It is a deeply damaging document, packed with factually inaccurate content.' is repeated in the main text, needs to come out.

I don't know any trans people who would support doping kids like this.

TheInebriati · 24/06/2019 22:43

I don't know any trans people who would support doping kids like this.

You've never hear of Action for Trans Health? IDK if Jess Bradley is still involved with them or not.

Healthcare for Trans Kids Now!
''We at Edinburgh Action for Trans Health support bodily autonomy and the right to self-determination for all trans people, including trans kids. ...And that includes access to hormones and surgeries.''
edinburghath.tumblr.com/post/163521055802/trans-health-manifesto

ByGrabtharsHammarWhatASaving · 24/06/2019 23:06

Action for trans health are straight up bananas.

There will be no clinics, and no authorities. We will conduct our own research, and experiment with our own bodies. We will heal and grow together. We will accumulate knowledge and share it freely and accessibly. We demand nothing less than the total abolition of the clinic, of psychiatry, and of the medical-industrial complex. We demand an end to capitalist & colonialist “medicine”.

Totally crackers. I'm honestly baffled that these people have been allowed to influence policy.

OP posts:
MacaroonMama · 24/06/2019 23:52

Just watched the little film (a couple of mins) in the link, from the Standing for Women website. I really didn't like it. Very creepy music - you know, like a nursery in a horror film? - most discomfitting. Maybe that is the point? I found it odd though.

Also the writing is not very clear, it is like handwriting so may be hard for some people to read.

I think I would prefer something that comes across as totally matter of fact and down to earth - most of the content I agreed with, but the presentation made me sort of suspicious and/or manipulated.

Sorry - don't mean to criticise - just well-meaning feedback from a totally GC feminist who has leafletted etc that I am not keen on this at all.

ByGrabtharsHammarWhatASaving · 25/06/2019 00:09

It isn't a polite or nuanced film that's for sure, but then that's Posie's thing isn't it. WPUK and FPFW do very sensible unoffensive talks that no one with a brain could call transphobic, and go and speak to universities and governments, and Posie just gives absolutely zero fucks and does whatever she can to galvanise people and try to drag the overton window back. I actually think both campaign styles have merit, though I think groups like WPUK will have a more positive outcome. But if the video whips up enough of a crowd for an impactful protest then I'll take that and call it a win. Right now we're still throwing it all at the wall and seeing what sticks.

OP posts:
barelove · 25/06/2019 00:15

I liked the video. It was different and needs to be to stand out and be memorable. Something more 'matter of fact and down to earth' would too easily blend in to all the other matter of fact and down to earth info we read every day and be forgotten.

London is a long way from where I live but I'd be up for a day trip to support this.

TurboTeddy · 25/06/2019 00:54

I liked the video too. Hope I don't get labelled a pedant but in the slide that starts with "worst still" shouldn't it read "worse still" or do I need to go back to school? I think it asks quite a few very pertinent questions.

I do value the calm and measured approach of other campaign groups but PP's message conveys my own anger tinged with a touch of couldn't give a fuck militancy. It always seems to be a woman's job to, compromise, be a mature negotiator and find compromise in difficult circumstances; sometimes my only response to some of this madness is none of those thing and I'm just thinking, "oh do fuck off and stop irritating me".

MoleSmokes · 25/06/2019 05:47

I think this bit will hit a lot of people who have been there smack between the eyes and will have a lasting impact. Smile

With some of the later "slides" that are completely unqualified by "most" or "some" etc. I thought at first it was pushing it a bit far but it's a clever way to provoke a response that asks for a more reasoned, factual answer.

"You can't say all children blah blah blah!"

"No - but how do we know which children and X% . . . etc."

Stonewall protest, July 5th
MacaroonMama · 25/06/2019 07:16

Ok, that's good to hear the positive comments, it must just be me then! Happy to stand corrected. I usually like the direct style of PP, I think I was mainly creeped out by the music!

FamilyOfAliens · 25/06/2019 09:48

The video clip was odd, I agree.

It would have been better with audio for people who struggled to read the text or who couldn’t read it quickly enough.

Still a desperately needed conversation though and I say that as a DSL in a primary school who discovered on a training course that Mermaids have already been in to at least one of our schools to “train” the staff.

ChattyLion · 25/06/2019 10:06

Posie’s tactics are essential in all this because we need a mix of messages to reach different people, and the questions in this video are great. Many teachers will feel deeply uncomfortable with what they are being asked to do. Important questions to ask.

But there is more to say if Posie is looking to persuade teachers who are committed enough to be at a Stonewall event.

Posie is a brilliant, empathetic, witty, to-the-point video presenter, I think she could film something in her car in 5 minutes that could supplement this video and make the overall message better understood.

This video relates to issues to be protested at an event about LGBT teaching in schools from Stonewall. Many people still think Stonewall is the LGB-supporting charity that it used to be. Many of those people don’t understand the solidarity that gender critical women (regardless of their sexual orientation or gender conformity or not) have with lesbian women and transmen, who are being horrendously gaslit by this male sexual rights movement. Because this agenda is a common threat across all women.

A key problem with this video is that it doesn’t mention the concerns there are for lesbian and gay kids (and adults!) and what we know about the TRA agenda’s existential threat to the right to same-sex attraction. Transing away the gay.

The video doesn’t mention the disgusting pressure on lesbians around the ‘cotton ceiling’, being pressured to accept sex with men if those men identify as women, doesn’t mention the complete takeover of youth groups and LGB organisations by this dogma leaving lesbian, gay and bisexual kids very little space to find support.

Lesbians out on the scene are being made unwelcome in their own spaces and are becoming made synonymous with ‘TERF’ in an increasingly violent rhetoric against TERFs online and in real life. Also crucially for school teachers to understand- detransitioned young people are being marginalised and socially excluded because they have deviated from the narrative.

What support is Stonewall advocating for, for them in schools? Do teachers feel free to ask about that, if not why not?. I think this politics is extremism and don’t schools have statutory duties around that?

It would be good also to advocate for more NHS spending on mental health support for kids and teens being needed who are already experiencing distress around ‘gender’ whatever the complex roots of that are (internalised misogyny, homophobia, anxieties about growing up, rejection of being constantly sexually objectified as an adolescent, pressure around personal appearance from porn imagery and many many other issues.) not to mention for those who detransition.

Finally Posie has been accused of taking funding from American pro life groups, the far right and whoever else and this particular video doesn’t say where it’s funded from. For some people that will be reason to dismiss it. The creepy music, American-looking school bus and clock tower school imagery, and silly spidery writing don’t help.

I am with Posie’s aims 100%, I massively admire the time and energy she is giving to this and I think the protest will be great, I just hope she will follow up with further videos. I would particularly like to see her and Julia Long co-present a video about lesbians and this agenda in time for the protest.

Hellmistress · 25/06/2019 10:20

I am also with Posie's aims 100% which is why I shall be at County Hall next week. I dearly hope to see some of you there.

MacaroonMama · 25/06/2019 13:23

I will see if DH can do school run so I can come along.

EmpressLesbianInChair · 25/06/2019 13:26

I don't know any trans people who would support doping kids like this.

How many trans people do you know who support Mermaids? They’re pushing for both drugs & genital surgery for children.

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 26/06/2019 08:54

I won't be able to get to London for an 8.30 start. I have mobility problems and can't travel when I won't get a seat.

But I can get there later. How long is it expected to go on for?

placemats · 26/06/2019 09:30

What I didn't like about the video was

A. The music.
B. The teacher was female.
C. It had the smack of victim blaming.

Mxyzptlk · 27/06/2019 22:42

I haven't seen the video you made, placemats.

EmpressLesbianInChair · 27/06/2019 23:01

But I can get there later. How long is it expected to go on for?

I don’t know, but the last one involved standing for a long time. Would that be a problem?

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 27/06/2019 23:09

Yes, it would, EmpressLesbianInChair. I suppose I could find a light picnic chair and carry it on my back. I'll explore the options.

MoleSmokes · 28/06/2019 02:26

@PrawnofthePatriarchy would one of these Walking Stick Seats be any use? I use the simple one that folds up into the triangular carrying pouch

www.completecareshop.co.uk/walking-sticks/walking-stick-seats/

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 28/06/2019 20:39

Thank you very much for that link, MoleSmokes. They look very suitable. And not too expensive too. I'm going down the local camping shop tomorrow but those sticks look handy.

VeniceAllan · 30/06/2019 17:06

Who is coming on Friday? I will be there!

PencilsInSpace · 30/06/2019 17:16

Me!

EmpressLesbianInChair · 30/06/2019 17:41

It will be great to see both of you, Venice and Pencils!

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