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Latest Caster Semenya Race

(108 Posts)
NotBadConsidering Wed 12-Jun-19 08:24:50

www.bbc.com/sport/athletics/48603383

"I can run any event I want. It can be 100m, 200m, the long jump, heptathlon, you name it."

The double Olympic and three-time world champion added: "Even if I have to withdraw from the 800m, it doesn't matter no more, I think I have won everything I ever wanted.”

Tell me again why I should have sympathy for this person?

Ringdonna Wed 12-Jun-19 08:39:19

She is an all round athlete though.

GassyAss Wed 12-Jun-19 08:40:45

Yep, I’m all out of sympathy too. Now I know CS is XY, I just see someone taking financial rewards and medals away from female athletes.

endofthelinefinally Wed 12-Jun-19 08:45:27

I am just grumbling to dh about this.
I am so fed up with the BBC reporting this week, and it is only Wednesday morning.
angry

JessicaWakefieldSV Wed 12-Jun-19 08:55:47

You shouldn’t have any sympathy for them. I don’t.

NotBadConsidering Wed 12-Jun-19 09:01:20

She’s not an all round female athlete. Another typical 800m athlete, say Lynsey Sharp, would never claim to be able to race against Dina Asher-Smith in the 100m. If Caster thinks heptathlon, field events and other distances aren’t a problem, why wasn’t that path chosen earlier? The fact that she thinks it would be an easy transition says a great deal.

It’s the last statement that gets me the most TBH. “I’m alright Jack”. Those women who have missed out medals, financial rewards and sponsorship aren’t important obviously.

OhHolyJesus Wed 12-Jun-19 09:05:21

Lets see CS in the boxing ring then or wrestle. Seeing as women's sport is dead no need to bother now is there?

All round athlete my arse.

endofthelinefinally Wed 12-Jun-19 09:05:51

If an XY invididual who has gone through puberty competes against XX individuals, they are probably going to win any event they choose.

LizzieSiddal Wed 12-Jun-19 09:15:22

Well, it just proves the idiocy of the decision to only block CS from the women’s 800m. The ban should have covered all women’s events. And now the whole world can see the idiocy of this decision.

"I am not an idiot, why would I take drugs? I am a pure athlete, not a cheat.”
Caster you’re an athlete with XY chromosome who lives as someone with XY chromosomes but competes against those with XX chromosomes.

CuriousaboutSamphire Wed 12-Jun-19 10:31:11

But not a cheat! Just an athlete with an unusual start in life, an oddity of chromosomes and being at the forefront of medical science and sport.

Not matter how belligerent or unpleasant an individual CS is, none of this is her fault (I now, I should say he, but female socialisation is a bitch!)! Anyone would try to protect their career, especially given the effort athletics takes.

Thankfully sport science is providing the evidence CAS needed and, if CAs can provide the Swiss court the correct paperwork, CS will be see the ban put back in place... with further to come, hopefully. The IAAF don't seem to eb very impressed with the legal route taken, so they will probably push back more than they would otherwise have done!

ALL of which will have knock on effects for all men wishing to complete in women's sports. It may fuck up next year's Olympics, but if the wider public see it on their tv screen there will be no denying the ludicrousness of TWAW... I have some small hope of that being a loud death knell, a fairly final nail in the coffin!

Note: some small hope, I am not totally deluded!

endofthelinefinally Wed 12-Jun-19 10:33:42

CS and CS's managers have known for years that CS is XY.

JessicaWakefieldSV Wed 12-Jun-19 10:34:29

none of this is her fault (I now, I should say he, but female socialisation is a bitch!)! Anyone would try to protect their career, especially given the effort athletics takes.

I disagree. Plenty of people protect their career by doing things they know are wrong. Caster knows they have an advantage and has known a long long time, is completely unrepentant and shows no concern for the women who miss out because of them.

NotBadConsidering Wed 12-Jun-19 10:43:56

Not only that, Semenya used that unfair advantage to beat women last night, and is happy to use that unfair advantage in any way possible, looking for any opportunity to circumvent rules. I agree the IAAF have made a mistake by not being clear about other distances.

NotBadConsidering Wed 12-Jun-19 10:47:03

But not a cheat! Just an athlete with an unusual start in life, an oddity of chromosomes and being at the forefront of medical science and sport

Not an oddity of chromosomes. Very simple chromosomes. Those of 50% of the population. XY. Not at the forefront of science and sport. It’s not a new concept that XY people have sporting advantage over XX. It’s certainly not something so advance that couldn’t have been sorted 10 years ago.

CuriousaboutSamphire Wed 12-Jun-19 10:59:05

I give in! CS didn't always know she is male, XY (and it isn't that simple or certain as we, the public, do not know). That's the point I was trying to make - chromosomes and presentation plus being born poor in S Africa. Not a usual set of circumstances.

At no point in her career has CS competed outside sport's law. The law is being changed because of her, Duttee etc etc and CAS and the IAAF are still working on it.

It’s certainly not something so advance that couldn’t have been sorted 10 years ago. Which just shows how little you understand how elite sport works!

There are quite a few intersex athletes competing at the moment. CAS has to have the science behind any changes in the law. 10 years ago CS's test results threw up a whole host of questions and research into them began pretty quickly. The scientific understadnings from those studies is now informing the changes in law. Those laws have to cover all variants and it will take more time as each is researched to find what, if any, benefit they confer on a wide variety of sports.

JessicaWakefieldSV Wed 12-Jun-19 11:04:04

Which just shows how little you understand how elite sport works!

That’s quite patronising. We understand and we think it sucks.

Caster’s condition is known, as many threads have made super clear.

endofthelinefinally Wed 12-Jun-19 11:06:23

And was known, at least 10 years ago. Recently enough to be aware of previous cases, investigations and knowledge.

NotBadConsidering Wed 12-Jun-19 11:15:34

Curious if it had been revealed 10 years ago that Semenya was XY I would have instantly said she should not be allowed to compete against women. No research has been done at all that has given any answers other than that which should have been given 10 years ago. What research has been done as a result of her case that needed to be clarified? What questions did the diagnosis throw up?

I know exactly how elite sport works. What has happened is political obfuscation. Semenya has known she is XY for at least 10 years. As has the IAAF. We all know this now. Semenya knows the exact DSD diagnosis. We do not know this currently.

At no point has Semenya acted outside the sport’s laws I agree. But morally I think there are questions.

I would like to see women’s sport protected at entry. All female athletes need to demonstrate they are 46XX (or 45X0 if a woman with Turner’s was competitive). Make it a requirement to enter women’s sport, so women’s sport isn’t “plus everyone else”.

CuriousaboutSamphire Wed 12-Jun-19 11:17:54

Yep! It was intended to be! I am pretty pissed off at all the posts about Semenya. Lots of people bitching about it with little understanding - as in it really is not known fully what CSs standing is, all sorts of assumptions have been made from the information available. Google it, the most is "believed to have hyperandrogenism" Not publicly known to be anything!

Yes, it does 'suck' I am sure you must have got that I don't like it from my post. But I don't think armchair vilification is the way to go! I do think allowing CAS and the IAAF to make their case to the Swiss court and to put the ban back in place is a good start. More will follow, inevitably, as the research into intersex and sport has not ended!

NotBadConsidering Wed 12-Jun-19 11:19:10

And my point of starting another thread about it is to highlight how Semenya is not content to beat women over 800m, Semenya, despite knowing her advantage, is now looking for any possible way to beat women, any opportunity. It stinks.

NotBadConsidering Wed 12-Jun-19 11:22:03

Curious you’re being disingenuous. Here is the ruling:

www.tas-cas.org/fileadmin/user_upload/Media_Release_Semenya_ASA_IAAF_decision.pdf

It clearly states Semenya has 46XY and high testosterone levels (from internal testes) This is not a point of conjecture. These are facts.

CuriousaboutSamphire Wed 12-Jun-19 11:23:22

No research has been done at all that has given any answers other than that which should have been given 10 years ago. I beg to differ. I've been peripherally involved in some of it! It has come on so much that undergrad students can now get ethical permission to undertake some of it! Unheard of 10 years ago!

And was known, at least 10 years ago. Recently enough to be aware of previous cases, investigations and knowledge. No, it was not!

That's what I mean. Everyone thinks they know because that is what non scientific press has being saying. But we don't know! And 10 years ago there was not enough rigorous scientific evidence for CAS to be able to rule. There is now... CAS is being challenged on procedural grounds. That too will pass!

NotBadConsidering Wed 12-Jun-19 11:26:43

The only reason Cas couldn’t rule is because of the ridiculous notion that the IAAF have had to prove that Semenya has an advantage, rather than Semenya proving she didn’t have an advantage.

CuriousaboutSamphire Wed 12-Jun-19 11:29:28

Highlight the part that states specifially that CS is 46 XY DSD!

ALL respsonsible media state categorically that "The results of gender testing carried out 10 years ago have not been made public"

Assumptions are being made!

I agree, the current situation makes absolutelty no sense if CS IS NOT, but we do not know!

CuriousaboutSamphire Wed 12-Jun-19 11:30:55

The only reason Cas couldn’t rule is because of the ridiculous notion that the IAAF have had to prove that Semenya has an advantage, rather than Semenya proving she didn’t have an advantage

Erm, yes! That's how science works. It's also how the law works, innocent until proven guilty, FFS!

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