Latest Caster Semenya Race

[NotBadConsidering]

www.bbc.com/sport/athletics/48603383

"I can run any event I want. It can be 100m, 200m, the long jump, heptathlon, you name it."

The double Olympic and three-time world champion added: "Even if I have to withdraw from the 800m, it doesn't matter no more, I think I have won everything I ever wanted.”

Tell me again why I should have sympathy for this person?

FFS? Really? Sport arbitration isn’t subject to the same “innocent until proven guilty”. Why should it be? Semenya isn’t being accused of anything. There’s no “guilt” to prove and never has been. Civil cases in law aren’t subjected to that same level of innocent until proven guilty so why should this be?

Yes! I know that.. and it is what everyone relies on to know . I don't disagree that it makes sense only if CS is!

But, I stick to my somewhat semantic point, as CS like the rest of us has every right to medical privacy! We do not know, we make that assumption.

And getting hung up on it is pointless.. the science is in, changes arfe being made, there will be more to follow. Intersex athletes will continue toc copete, be mnitored, more science will be done.

The upshot of which is that transwomen athletes will find it harder and harder to compete legally, but will still compete, relying on the science done on people with real medical conditions to do so. All totally the wrong way round, but hey! That's the fuckwitted society we currently endure!

Sport arbitration isn’t subject to the same “innocent until proven guilty” Ha ha ha! Tell me again about the Swiss federal supreme court.

as CS like the rest of us has every right to medical privacy!

Actually no they don’t. We have a right to know if a Male is competing against females.

Semenya has the right to privacy but it is an indisputable fact that she is 46XY DSD. It is not an assumption.

There is no science to be done in this area. All athletes with 46XY have advantages over those with 46XX.

I’m getting hung up on it because lack of clarity on this issue has led to Semenya speculating about other distances and how well she’d do. More women to miss out. What has passed has passed, but it doesn’t mean women can’t still be protected from now on.

Curious why do you feel the need to add tinkly laughs and exclamation marks to your posts? It just makes you sound rude and patronising, like you want to ruffle everyone’s silly little heads.

NotBad you see to think I disgree with you from start to finish! I don't. It is just the vilification of CS that I disgree with. Granted s/he isn't portraying a good image at all with such vainglorious statements. But sport science and sport law has to be seen to be done... that's my point! Otherwise the whole shit show gets dragged out for far longer and all those 'feelings' get given creedance... what is needed is what is happening:science, lots of it, specifically designed to find and illustrate the answers many TW athletes do not want to be seen.

I'm getting hung up on it because the continued focus on 'hating' CS detracts from a greater, deeper understanding of the law and the science.

And, as I may have said, sport science is what I used to do for a living! It is something I am quite passionate about even though I am no longer working in the field.

Semenya and coach and others have known about all this since 2009:

www.newyorker.com/magazine/2009/11/30/eitheror

If an XY invididual who has gone through puberty competes against XX individuals, they are probably going to win any event they choose.

Exactly. It's nonsense that this has been allowed to continue

Tinkly laughs??? Never been accused of that before. If you mean the ha ha ha! I was being sarcastic, benused even at your dismissal of a Supereme Federal Court!

I do like a good exclamation mark though!

But, if that's the tack you want to take I will leave you to it! Your own echo chamber...

I think it’s weird you keep banging on about the science, waiting for it blah blah It’s been known for some time now that XY has an advantage in sports over XX.

But, if that's the tack you want to take I will leave you to it! Your own echo chamber

Well nobody likes rudeness and sarcasm when valid points you’re ignoring are being raised. You could make your point in this ‘echo chamber’ without being stupid and goady about it. Why do it? Does it make you feel clever? Then when others point it out you just call this an echo chamber? You’re just rude. Nothing to do with not liking other opinions.

To me she is a cheat pure and simple

From the Women in Sport and Exercise conference today:

twitter.com/wiseconf/status/1138759518505115649

Jessica Yes! But it has not been known what advantage intersex variations have. Nobody had done any science on intersex athletes as few of them existed until a decade or so ago. It is not robust enough to say 'it's obvious' for it to be a truth, a known fact. Research had to be done. Lots of it now has been done and, after CAS return to court, it will be much more unassailable than previously.

No thoughts, feelings, assumptions, what ifs, doubts that cannot be disporven by hard, cold scientific facts - or scheduled for further investigation.

I am sorry you think that actually knowing something is weird!

You’re just rude. If that were true I'd have phrased my last post rathe differently.

You say vilification, I say not letting misinformation continue to be the norm about the case, and not letting the increasingly witnessed misogyny and disregard for women in Semenya’s event and now others go unchallenged.

My point about arbitration is that it shouldn’t even have got to the stage of the Swiss Federal Court. The IAAF aren’t subjected to “innocent until proven guilty” and could have ruled on this 10 years ago. But they didn’t.

Intersex athletes are still, mostly, either male or female. Allowing male intersex athletes to choose to compete as female until there’s science to prove they have an advantage, is bullshit. That’s politics. The onus should of been on those males wanting to race as females, to prove there was no advantage. We already know XY has advantage, that’s not new. The right thing to do would be to maintain XY and XX categories until there was proof that there were no advantages.

Vilification? Yes, for knowing you are Male and pursuing this anyway, for making several misogynistic comments, for lying about being socialised as female, for making this about race.

Ta Jackie for the link

Jessica Yes! But it has not been known what advantage intersex variations have.

It has always been known what advantage male athletes have.

DSD or not, Caster has always been male.

It's so unsportsmanlike for CS to continue to compete with women, now it is clear CS is a male who has been virilized by going through a male puberty.

As for evidence of advantage - use your eyes!

It was unsportsmanlike 10 years ago. All that’s changed is we now all know. And clearly Semenya doesn’t see it as unsportsmanlike given the blasé consideration of giving other distances a go.

There is not a single 46XY DSD that doesn’t have an advantage over women.

"Highlight the part that states specifially that CS is 46 XY DSD!"

I think that we have been through this manytimes since the IAAF decided that CS could not compete in her usual events.

www.letsrun.com/news/2019/05/what-no-one-is-telling-you-about-caster-semenya-she-has-xy-chromosomes/

"The DSD covered by the Regulations are limited to athletes with “46 XY DSD” – i.e. conditions where the affected individual has XY chromosomes."

www.tas-cas.org/fileadmin/user_upload/Media_Release_Semenya_ASA_IAAF_decision.pdf

"There is not a single 46XY DSD that doesn’t have an advantage over women."

Exactly this, and there were three of them occupying the medal positions in the women's 800 metres at Rio.
Here is an article from back in 2014, which talks about XY athletes competing against women, specifically 17 year old Margaret Wambui (one of the Rio medallists) winning the World Junior women's 800 metres championships.

www.letsrun.com/news/2014/09/brief-history-intersex-athletes-sport/