Serious official criticism of Butterfly

[Charliethefeminist]

link

I have an issue with my login so good luck with the link. You might only get the headline.

This is serious journalism by Andrew Gilligan.

[EmpressAdultHumanFemale]

Here's a sharetoken link from my login if that helps. www.thetimes.co.uk/article/teen-transgender-drama-butterfly-inflates-suicide-risk-9ng3z22mv?shareToken=66b3126bd1f7f339bbe37a439158daaf

[VickyEadie]

It mentions the taking of a child abroad for surgery. I thought that was an offence.

[TLMJJ]

This is incredibly significant. Susie Green of Mermaids claims that 48% of transgender children attempt suicide because they are not being treated properly by the NHS’s Gender Identity Service, but GIDs has released figures showing that the actual rate is less than 1%. That’s quite a difference, and is great news for worried parents.

[Thingybob]

Maybe not great news as even 1% makes these young people a very high risk group.

[lucasthecat]

Thingybob - In the article the 1% figure is given context - it is the same risk for the same age group - referred for any mental health support - clearly 1% is not To be ignored - but neither is it the ridiculously made up 48% - we now have a reference backed with figures and context for the suicide risk for young people - and it is No higher for trans people than other young people who require support from outside agencies

[UrsulaPandress]

The fight back continues.

[ParentsOfSummer]

Wow, if that's not biased data I don't know what is... A 47% difference between recorded data and survey results (done by a organisation with a vested interest).

I would have thought a 48% rate of suicidal thoughts would be a clear sign that a doctor must be involved in diagnosis so mental health services can be involved?! Self-ID would leave transgender persons without the interventions they need.

Is there any data to show that gender reassignment / "coming out" fixes this worrying percentage?

[Charliethefeminist]

Thank you for the link. The fact that the suicide statistics 'match' those of children with a range of mental health problems is not news - it was revealed by the Stonewall study but never, ever publicised by Stonewall.

Have to give a huge round of applause to Prof Michael Biggs here too. He has been toiling away on this issue of misleading suicide statistics for months - he's take the flak for being GC without any of the usual public fanfare (also is a very very nice bloke, was delighted to meet him one time)

[Charliethefeminist]

Summer: robust unto date post transition statistics are hard to come by but those that exist (for adults) indicate no.

[lucasthecat]

So no they are not a very high risk group, when looked at in the context of all young people with mental health issues. Anything that can be done to reduce that 1% should be done - as the impact on individuals and families can be devastating - but lying and inflating the risk to push an agenda is highly irresponsible at best

[dudsville]

Thanks for the link. I found that very helpful.

[SodTheBloodyLotOfThem]

The suicide risk isn't 1%, the article says less than 1%, by the stats given it's actually 0.14%.

[NopeNi]

I still can't believe this is happening. It's actual "fake news", people have swallowed the statistic without question for ages.

[Charliethefeminist]

It's worse than not helpful, surely. The statistics figure was once described by trans actress Rebecca Root as 'in our favour' in a film about the campaign for self ID. I don't accuse Root of knowing the true figure and lying about it. But it indicates that there was an awareness and exploitation of their 'political usefulness' as well as their blatant deployment of emotional blackmail to parents.

Butterflies was probably once expected to be the fanfare on the final march through the gates of glorious campaign success for transactivists. Instead it is offering up the opportunity to publicly pick apart, piece by piece, the misinformation we and parents have been fed for years.

[Charliethefeminist]

@r0wantrees will be very interested

[UrsulaPandress]

Don't let WYP hear you say that.

[EmpressAdultHumanFemale]

Ursula I'll put that on the list with not wearing my Adult Human Female t-shirt in Liverpool.

[OrchidInTheSun]

Helen Belcher (founder of Trans Media Watch and Lib Dem) has pulled out of f judging a journalism prize because Janice Turner is on the shortlist.

Belcher's statement said "“Since The Times started printing such pieces, starting with one by Turner in September 20177_, I have heard of more trans suicides than at any point since 2012. These have mainly been of trans teenagers. I pointed this out. Despite this, Turner was still shortlisted for Commentator of the Year."

Not not is this an outrageous slur but it's untrue.

Belcher advises government and the media on trans issues

[kesstrel]

It's not 1%, it's about a tenth of that - 0.14%. "Less than 1%" can sometimes mean a lot less than 1%.

Excellent article, but from a factual point of view, it's a shame the writer didn't say more about the nature of the Stonewall survey. "47% of a self-selected sample of 27 transgender young people" would have alerted readers to the flawed nature of their evidence.

[TigerDrankAllTheWaterInTheTap]

Interesting that a lot of other big name journalists who don't write about trans issues were weighing in on Twitter in support of Janice Turner after that tweet.

[pennydrew]

Why has Susie Green never been prosecuted? I’m really pleased with the article. Any suicide is one too many, but it is simply irresponsible scaremongering to inflate the statistics for a political agenda.

[KataraJean]

It is interesting that the article also says that the programme makers visited the Gender Identity Development Service but parted over differences.

So the programme departs from the practice and guidance of GIDS presumably and relies on Green (as Friel indicates).

The problem is - how many people watch this programme versus how many people read The Times?

[KataraJean]

Oh, and yes to support of Janice Turner!

[MadamBatty]

There’s a daily mail article that’s also critical of The programme.

Ms Green is quoted as saying that mermaids have never stated that trans kids denied hormones are more at risk of self harm.

Surely she’s contradicting herself now?