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Girlguiding expels leaders who question trans policy

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AgnesBadenPowell Sun 23-Sep-18 01:04:33

Well, I guess I knew this was coming. Dissent will not be tolerated. Forget the safety concerns, the privacy and dignity issues, the managing out of gender non-confirming girls. What's really serious is one leader referring to another leader "a nightmare" in a private conversation.

Girl Guide leaders expelled for questioning trans policy

Two Guide leaders who had raised safeguarding concerns about the organisation’s transgender policy have been expelled and had their units closed down.

Dozens of children face disappointment because there is no one else to run the units. The expelled leaders say they will take legal action against Girlguiding if their removals are upheld.

Helen Watts, one of 12 leaders who signed a letter to The Sunday Times in April asking for a review of the policy, was told on Friday that her membership was being terminated after more than 15 years with the Guides.

At least one other signatory, based in the northwest of England, was expelled. Documents seen by The Sunday Times suggest disciplinary investigations have been launched against at least five Guide leaders.

[Edited by MNHQ to remove copyright materiel]

OP’s posts: |
UpstartCrow Sun 23-Sep-18 01:07:21

GG have just demonstrated that they don't give a fig about girls.

JustAnotherSpartacus Sun 23-Sep-18 01:09:30

Absolute disgrace. I thought I was beyond being shocked, but I am by this.

PositivelyPERF Sun 23-Sep-18 01:15:30

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

vivariumvivariumsvivaria Sun 23-Sep-18 01:23:03


"we can't get volunteers"

Yeah, well, that's not going to improve now, Guiding. And, so, it's the girls who lose out.

Tale as old as time.

LightofaSilveryMoon Sun 23-Sep-18 01:26:11

MRA - men's rights activists - getting their hooks in, using the falsehood of GRA - gender rights activism, as a front.

Mamaryllis Sun 23-Sep-18 01:28:30

I am so sorry Helen.

Materialist Sun 23-Sep-18 01:28:58

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Procrastinator1 Sun 23-Sep-18 01:43:22

Very sorry that this has happened. Thank you, Agnes for putting the girls first.

minisoksmakehardwork Sun 23-Sep-18 01:47:05

I am shocked. Horrified. I will be writing to them once again on this matter. I don't think they actually understand how much women and girls valued their single sex space. Even my rainbows enjoyed the space away from annoying brothers (when asked in conjunction with one of GG's own activities). While they may be too young to understand the whole 'safe space' issue, they were astute enough to know, without prompting, the difference between sex and gender. Which implies to me that at least with the parents of my girls, it was something they considered important.

We are not in the dark ages. We are not tarring those with gender dysphoria with the same brush as the likes of 'Karen White'. But it is the likes of KW who are damaging both our female only spaces and the plight of those with a genuine disorder.

BettyFloop Sun 23-Sep-18 02:00:28

This is fucking ridiculous. I'm so sorry Agnes

Yet another place where females are forbidden to meet/do things without males present - at worst, an open door for male abusers.
While we all watch the demise of the Girl Guiding movement with most people wondering why...

OlennasWimple Sun 23-Sep-18 02:01:45

FFS. This gets even worse sad

seafret Sun 23-Sep-18 02:03:54

This is a very dark day. I am sorry this has happened to such brave GG leaders. They are exactly the women we need to be looking after the welfare of girls.

Trousered Sun 23-Sep-18 02:10:27

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Charliethefeminist Sun 23-Sep-18 02:26:23

I'm so sorry. Volunteers will dry up and a valuable space for girls is lost. That was the plan, and this disgrace of a leadership pandered to the Y and lets it happen.

I also blame media outlets, including the BBC, who had opportunities to tell this story and were too afraid of anti-woman transactivists to do so.

BesmirchingMotherhood Sun 23-Sep-18 02:28:20

I’m so, so sorry. This is just awful. 💐

We do, in fact, need to start over.

AgnesBadenPowell Sun 23-Sep-18 02:30:02

@Charliethefeminist I recorded an interview for newsnight a few months back. It's never been aired. I think we know why. It was very hush hush because I was risking my membership. It doesn't matter any more.

OP’s posts: |
AgnesBadenPowell Sun 23-Sep-18 02:31:29

Thank you for your kind words and support. Another leader was expelled, others investigated. Goodness knows how many parents and other leaders complained to GGHQ about this over the past 18 months. It's been a collective effort.

OP’s posts: |
FlorisApple Sun 23-Sep-18 02:39:52

This is terrible. I was a guide and it was a wonderfully empowering space for girls as I was growing up. I hoped my daughter might one day join too, but not anymore. I'm disgusted by this decision - getting rid of the people who actually care about girls instead of addressing the issues raised in relation to safeguarding. It's a sad day for the guides.

Charliethefeminist Sun 23-Sep-18 02:44:49

Interviewed and they never showed it? Meanwhile they interview Pink News twice without an opposing voice, Breakfast News has a piece with three trans people and no feminists, Amy Challoner gets unopposed on Woman's Hour... BBC isn't even bothering to hide its bias at all, is it?

Movablefeast Sun 23-Sep-18 02:53:45

For anyone saying that women are overreacting when they say they will lose their women only organizations and female-only spaces, here, it’s already happening. Why are women and girls devalued so much?Incredibly depressing.

miri1985 Sun 23-Sep-18 02:56:08

If the concerns these leaders are raising aren't valid then I don't see why they can't explain why they aren't valid.

If this is a policy and an ethos that everyone associated with GG has to agree to then why not let it be discussed, why not send a note to every parent of a GG and explain this is what the situation is? Oh right cause they know anyone with a brain could see that their policy is bonkers and would rightly cause a fuss or leave if they knew what was going on.

AgnesBadenPowell Sun 23-Sep-18 03:05:10

The reasons given for my expulsion were breaching the code of conduct and breaching social media policy. GGHQ is disingenuously trying to distance itself away from the reasons why I spoke publicly. It wasn't public for some time and many other women also raised concerns privately.

You can't tell leaders to raise concerns through the internal channels and then tell them that they won't engage in discussion on the subject. What choice do we have? Just look the other way?

OP’s posts: |
BitOfFun Sun 23-Sep-18 03:14:11

It's an absolute disgrace. I was considering volunteering for the Guiding movement, but I wouldn't touch them with a shitty stick now. I'm so sorry you've been betrayed like this, Agnes.

miri1985 Sun 23-Sep-18 03:43:43

Should we file this under this thing never happens or this would only happen in America and our safeguarding (which we're busy undermining) would prevent this

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