Girlguiding expels leaders who question trans policy

[AgnesBadenPowell]

Well, I guess I knew this was coming. Dissent will not be tolerated. Forget the safety concerns, the privacy and dignity issues, the managing out of gender non-confirming girls. What's really serious is one leader referring to another leader "a nightmare" in a private conversation.

Girl Guide leaders expelled for questioning trans policy

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/34139ed0-bea5-11e8-8d21-451ec1df6b83

Two Guide leaders who had raised safeguarding concerns about the organisation’s transgender policy have been expelled and had their units closed down.

Dozens of children face disappointment because there is no one else to run the units. The expelled leaders say they will take legal action against Girlguiding if their removals are upheld.

Helen Watts, one of 12 leaders who signed a letter to The Sunday Times in April asking for a review of the policy, was told on Friday that her membership was being terminated after more than 15 years with the Guides.

At least one other signatory, based in the northwest of England, was expelled. Documents seen by The Sunday Times suggest disciplinary investigations have been launched against at least five Guide leaders.

[Edited by MNHQ to remove copyright materiel]

[ShotsFired]

I am on the FB page. There is screenshotted proof that critical comments have been deleted off the GG facebook page.

It's outrageous.

But unfortunately (a) a lot of people still won't have heard about it and (b) even if they have, think it is so ridiculous it must be untrue.

[Melamin]

Surely pointing someone in the direction of another organisation if they transition the other way is discrimination on the grounds of working towards gender recognition in the Equalities Act?

You can still stay in the Masons if you are a woman providing you were a man when you joined. They seem to interpret the Act differently.

[LilyMumsnet]

Hi OP

The article pasted in your opening post is protected by a pay wall so we've edited it out now.

[LemonJello]

One of the people apparently advising Girl Guiding is Jane Fae.

Jane Faye, formerly known as John Ozimek, was an expert witness for the defence in a case against an extremely sexual violent piece of writing about the rape, mutilation, murder and dismemberment of Girls Aloud.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/libertycentral/2009/jul/01/obscenity-law-darryn-walker

Jane Faye defended that. Jane Faye seems to be a more desirable voice when it comes to the well-being of girls, than a woman who has devoted her time to these girls for the past 15 years.

[AsAProfessionalFekko]

The Faye is not a credible person to advise surely?

And in other news, active poacher advises gamekeepers on keeping their livestock safe.

[hackmum]

Agreed, Fekko. But then Mesmac are also going into schools to advise them about transgender pupils, even though they have a history of allowing staff to have sexual relationships with service users. Why people like Girl Guides and schools don't carry out basic checks before calling people in is beyond me.

Am encouraged to see that 100% of the comments on the Times piece are outraged at Girl Guides UK's behaviour.

[AncientLights]

I'm sorry you have been chucked out of a group that is clearly central to you, Agnes, but maybe good will come of it. The comments show not a scintilla of support for GG's position and I'm sure this is reflective of the British people generally who are only just waking up to this dangerous nonsense. It must be causing real 'WTF?' moments with lots of people.

[NotAnotherJaffaCake]

I am sorry, but not surprised to hear this. Thank you for your efforts. And sorry, but fuck GG HQ. No daughter of mine will have anything to do with them.

[AsAProfessionalFekko]

What's Mesmac?

[Molokonono]

Presumably if all Girl Guide leaders also opposed this new 'guidance' then the GG would have to close down?

Or would it 'rebrand' with all male leaders?

The question to ask is, who is gaining when women who are pointing out the risks to girls in their new safeguarding procedures are removed from post?

Surely the answer would have been to highlight where the risks have been addressed, and show their risk assessment and the background to why the decision was made?

[AsAProfessionalFekko]

Can't girls join scouts as girls?

[jellyfrizz]

So who is giving Guides the incorrect legal advice

Gendered Intelligence (one of the main pushers of gender ideology along with GIRES and Mermaids)

Yes.

"We also worked in consultation with Gendered Intelligence on our transgender inclusion policy and developing our resources, which are available on the website."

(pg 9 under 'Inclusion":www.girlguiding.org.uk/globalassets/docs-and-resources/quality-and-compliance/girlguiding-annual-report-2017.pdf)

[AsAProfessionalFekko]

Any actual women's groups though? Psychologists?

Oh, I get it - the men say so...

Grow a pair, GG!

[OldCrone]

Presumably if all Girl Guide leaders also opposed this new 'guidance' then the GG would have to close down?

I'm sure there will be plenty of David Challenor types who are willing to take their place.

[arranfan]

Mesmac was a (previously) well-respected sexual health organisation that has branched out in its remit.

www.mesmac.co.uk/news

[LittlePearl]

There's a contact form on their website where you can register a concern or complaint. I've just emailed them under the drop-down heading 'safeguarding' to say my daughter won't now be joining GGUK - perhaps others would consider this small act of protest.....?

[GirlScout72]

So sorry Agnes

As I recall another parent wrote to GG asking about autogynephilia and self ID and the reply they received from GG HQ was they don't screen for it because it's 'not a crime'.

So they know what a cross dressing sexual paraphilia is, and they are happy for the self ID'd "women" leaders to have it and parade it around small children. They are happy for people who aren't trans to pretend to be trans and practice their fetish in the Girl Guides.

Wonder if they are aware it's the most common sexual paraphilia in serial sadistic sex offenders? fairplayforwomen.com/3781-2/

I quote "ii) Academic studies also suggest a higher than average prevalence of activities such as cross-dressing amongst sex offenders. There is not much research on the subject but one study that evaluated the incidence in the general population found that nearly 3% of males reported sexual arousal from cross-dressing. The incidence of transvestism in sexual offenders, however, has been found to be very much higher. In a study of over 500 sex offenders, it was observed that over half exhibited transsexualism and/or cross-dressing as their primary paraphilia. Paraphilias are atypical sexual interests in objects, situations, or individuals. Repeat offending is more likely among sex offenders who have paraphilias (see study here). Among serious sadistic offenders, transvestism and fetishism are strongly represented (studies here and here)"

DBS checking will be the next big story too, as that's a mess when it comes to trans applicants.

This isn't over by a long chalk. Don't forget there's a facebook group for Sisters to All Guides, I'd imagine there'll be some more public organising soon www.facebook.com/groups/sisterstoallguides/

[Ineedacupofteadesperately]

Agnes Just to say that I'm sorry this has happened. Please take legal action, I will donate to a crowdfunder if you need funds.

[Datun]

Dear god, this is appalling.

Not just the questions you raised, but shutting you up.

Who the fuck is pulling all the strings?
Julie Bentley, GG CEO, is best mates with Simon Blake, who's on the Stonewall trans-advisory committee, with Aimee Challoner, whose nappy fetish is plastered all over Twitter. And isnt Blake in a highly paid position in the NUS (head?) where Jess Bradley was getting her cock out in public encouraging minors to do the same and having cartoons of Ben 10 being anally raped on their website.

Why isn't the press reporting on this shit show of entitled men and their perv mates being around the advising of the girl guides policy that allows boys in the tents with girls and parents not to know.

[MinecraftHolmes]

I'm trying very hard to be charitable and not see GGUK's acceptance of self-id'd transwomen as Leaders as blindly allowing children to be used as non-consenting witnesses to validate the leader's performance of femininity. Trying very hard indeed.

[Bloomcounty]

Wow. Someone in my facebook friends (who is a GG leader and deeply embedded within the organisation) has been posting a gazillion "come volunteer with the girl guides, it's FUN" kind of posts for the last few days. Loads of "these are our great activities", "come, join in the adventure", "be a volunteer and help the next generation of women develop into leaders and strong people" blah de blah de blah. So much spam, it was nauseating.

Now I know why. Damage limitation.

GG must have known that this article was on its way.

[hackmum]

Does anyone know what the legal position is with volunteers? Obviously if the OP had been in a paid role, she'd have a very strong case, but I just don't know how it works with volunteers.

[OldCrone]

And why is the risk of young teen pregnancy also not considered

One response I saw to this question was that 'trans girls' were not boys

This is from the Allsorts/Mermaids guidance for schools in Brighton and Hove

Underpinning this scenario is the idea that a trans girl is not a ‘real girl’ and this would be something that a whole setting approach would challenge through training and awareness raising. A Human Rights response would be to state that the child is a girl and as such has the right under the Equality Act to change with the girls and to be treated fairly as such.

Thread here
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3373715-Transing-five-and-six-year-olds-the-guidance

[NotAnotherJaffaCake]

Who's the patron of the GG and would they be happy with this?

[ShotsFired]

That would be the Queen, Jaffa.