Nic Williams... R4

[BlackeyedSusan]

on now...

stonewall want to remove singel sex exemptions,

reduce the medical horror and still give women the protection you are talking about

transmedia watch now on... self id will lead to the erosion of womens rights.

protection for single sexplaces will remain in place...

how will single sex places remain if you are allowed to change your birth certificate?

exemptions have to be argued inthe courts....

reality is womes services work on a risk based assessment...

majority of organisations already onclude trans women...

Sorry some of that was paraphrased.

Radio four. Today about 7.10

Thanks for this, I caught the end. The presenter gets it.

Yes that's what I thought. I really wanted him to take it a little bit further but the implication was there

For a short interview that was pretty good. The journalist very clearly put the point about women with penises in pool changing rooms.

I'm afraid Nic wasn't very good and Helen Belcher after her came across as much more considered and persuasive. I could see the holes in Belcher's arguments but they went unremarked on in the interview.

My heart was sinking but Nick Robinson’s questioning of the Trans Media Watch rep nailed it, e.g. women in a women only swim not wanting “women with penises” in with them; commenting about women campaigning for decades for single sex spaces having to fight for those rights through the courts all over again. Brilliant stuff Nic and Nick!

Yay. BBC actually questioning whether women will have to fight for spaces that they have already had to fight for. An article where some of the issues were properly aired and an interviewer who said ‘women with a penis’.
We need more of this. Let’s see what the equalities minister has to say at 8:10.

@nauticant Yes, sadly I agree.

I also think the argument too often gets boiled down to changing rooms. It must be broadened to all women’s shortlists, prison accommodation, crime statistics and the stuff that is much “fuzzier” and more complicated to convey.

The only thing Nic said that might make the unaware sit up & think “hang on a minute” would be her reference to overnight accommodation not being female only. Otherwise, it was a bit arcane. We need more concrete examples of stuff that’s already happening included.

I thought he questioned both sides with tough questions. though he listed toilets, changing rooms and not refuges and girlguides.

I was pleased when Nick Robinson actually said “women with penises”. Belcher didnt address the point though, just kept banging on about how single sex spaces would still fall under the protection of the Equality Act.

Although she is obviously talking complete sense, I don’t think Nic Williams comes across very well on radio. She sounds a bit unprepared and vaque.

I think we need to make sure we don’t let the whole debate focus on single sex spaces. I think this is where pro self id people will want discussion to be focussed. Here, they can go on about legal protections.
We need to get it out there that this changes the definition of sex so it is determined by feelings as opposed to biology. We need language that distinguishes between one’s sex and one’s gender identity!

Although I agree with you DryHeave, whenever the discussion moves beyond the apparently trivial toilets and changing rooms to things like prisons, the "serious" aspects are easy to dismiss with "well yes, naturally, strong rules can apply there".

It's inherent to the arguments in this area that sands shift beneath people's feet as they try to make their arguments. This is why there's been such a big push for definitions to be turned into meaningless embraces-all-capture-nothing bundles of words. That together with the continual use of human shields - vulnerable kids, confused young people, people going through Hell with dysphoria - makes any clear anti-gender ideology argument very difficult to make

I cheered when Nick used the phrase “women with a penis”. Thank you Nick!

I think she did well. Unfortunately Nick never went back to her after Helen Belcher said it was all to do with the EA not the GRA.

I thought Nic Williams did well. Unfortunately it sounds bad to criticise the "hallowed" Stonewall. I think CG women ought to mention its vast funding and reserves and point out that they have been campaigning for this for years whenever possible.

We need to have better answers about it all being fine in Ireland and Denmak etc. Speak about things in Canada perhaps, but it's so difficult when the interviewee is not directing the questions. Once again the gender critical point of view is put first so there is no chance to rebut the other side's argument.

I think Nick Robinson does get it. He is right, once obtaining a GRC is as easy as filling in a form, Stonewall and every other similar organisation will be litigating the hell out of anyone who tries to keep a female space open. And those organisations will not be able to fund their defence.

Women have been well and truly kippered and I didn't know it was happening until recently. I can't bear to listen to Penny Mordaunt later.

The trouble is that trying to convey all the potential threats to women and girls' rights and protections and in such a short interview is very difficult. Nick Robinson clearly gets it and put proper questions to both Nic and Helen Belcher.

In such short pieces it's essential to focus on real life examples that the general public can understand will affect them. To be very clear and concise.

I think Nic Williams' writing is excellent and extremely clear. Doing media interviews is a very different skill so maybe a bit of specific training would be of benefit?

I admire her so much for putting herself out there and in the line of fire.

The thing is you have all made it about single sex spaces even though we have said this is the ea and not the gra the thing that is actually being debated we did keep telling you that it was not th issue so when people now keep asking you about it am afraid that's upto you I would and I'm sure Helen would rather discuss the the actual reform of the gra which there is need for real debate on

I’m confused by why there is a problem with the current process being arduous, costly and demeaning. That pretty much describes being a woman!