Nic Williams... R4

[BlackeyedSusan]

on now...

I applaud Nick Robinson for his statement about "women with penises."

BareBelliedSneetch

That is brilliant lol well played

Lol barebellied! Currently attempting to work out what are the fewest extras I need to buy to make the small part of my wardrobe I can still fit into work for breastfeeding over the summer.

And I think I'll need just one more lansinoh tube to take me through which will add up to £30 in total...

"My heart was sinking but Nick Robinson’s questioning of the Trans Media Watch rep nailed it, e.g. women in a women only swim not wanting “women with penises” in with them; commenting about women campaigning for decades for single sex spaces having to fight for those rights through the courts all over again. Brilliant stuff Nic and Nick!"

^ Yes, yes to this ^

I think the public would have taken that away as the final word and it was a fair summary of the facts.

The thing is you have all made it about single sex spaces even though we have said this is the ea and not the gra the thing that is actually being debated we did keep telling you that it was not th issue so when people now keep asking you about it am afraid that's upto you I would and I'm sure Helen would rather discuss the the actual reform of the gra which there is need for real debate on

TRAs in an attempt to obfuscate, divide and conquer have been very busy saying 'aha! you said you wanted to talk about the GRA but here you are talking about the EA. You want to take away all our rights you bigot' - and then when that didn't work, we got 'hahaha you're stupid, you should be looking at the EA not the GRA'

We have always said it's about both laws, the way they interact and the way culture changes in response to the law.

FPFW also urge Ministers to “show leadership” by issuing clear guidance about how the equalities laws that allow for women-only spaces and services can be practically upheld and implemented.

More on now.

It's great that Nic got in that Stonewall have been lobbying to get rid of the single sex exceptions.

From the press release: Stonewall, at the same time as advising many organisations on how to implement the Equality Act, has been lobbying Government to get rid of the Equality Act provisions allowing single-sex exemptions.

Pencils In Space I'm confused by your statement you wanted to talk about EA stuff do people are but this consultation is about GRA so when you do that people just think your not talking about the thing thst is being discussed

We have always said it's about both laws, the way they interact and the way culture changes in response to the law.

This. It's quite clear what she means Bespin.

Interesting that the PM is going to introduce the consultation and not the equalities minister.
However they decide to streamline the process, I don’t think they’ll get away with fudging terminology. Hopefully sex, gender, man, women will be properly defined in the reworking.

How can we expect a fair consultation process when the Equalities Minister is starting from the point that our concerns about gatekeeping and safeguarding are irrelevant because TWAW?

Yes Ereshkigal it's quite clear, unfortunately the government is only. Consulting on one though and not both or how they interact so when people go. On about single. Sex spaces they tend to look like they are talking about the wrong law when someone points out what the consultation is actually about

I wonder if it's because the PM promised the Earth at the Pink News awards last year - i.e. you created the expectation, you deal withtje fall out.

Interesting to hear Penny Mordaunt state so clearly that both trans and women’s viewpoints have equal validity/merit and reinforcing the retention of sex exemptions.

Nic does a great job. I agree that she comes over more clearly in print and on the TV than in radio.

Would it be worth crowdfunding for specific radio media training? There's no reason why she should already have this skill set, being a scientist.

We have always said it's about both laws, the way they interact and the way culture changes in response to the law.

This. And as everyone already knows, despite endless attempts at misdirection hereabouts, the culture is already changing in ways that are deleterious for women.

And in any case, how do you maintain the integrity of single sex exemptions if you cannot check for birth certificate changes when employing someone, for example?

I will be suggesting that all job and volunteer vacancies using the single sex exemption are to use a version of DBS which will check for birth certificate changes. Privacy can only go so far.

How can we expect a fair consultation process when the Equalities Minister is starting from the point that our concerns about gatekeeping and safeguarding are irrelevant because TWAW?

We can't. Which is why it's vital that we complete the consultation ourselves and persuade as many people as we can to do the same.

I might be here a bit less because I'm going on a massive IRL recruitment drive.

I will be suggesting that all job and volunteer vacancies using the single sex exemption are to use a version of DBS which will check for birth certificate changes. Privacy can only go so far.

This is an excellent suggestion. Who could object?

mobile.twitter.com/dog_feelings?lang=en

Sorry I know it's serious but that account comes into my head every time I hit FWR.

Bespin, I think I'm allowed to remind you this is a feminism board for feminists. We want to talk about things that affect us. I wish you would stop interrupting that. It's so rude.

Hi Pratchet I think I'm allowed to also post on this board also being a feminist and wanting to discuss issues that do effect us, I understand your definition of feminism does not include me I think mumsnets definition does and while I respect your view I have to right to also present my view in this just sd you do

Yes, you're allowed to post, but in real life your behaviour would be considered extremely rude. Also, you don't know what a feminist is, partly because you don't know what a woman is. Please go ahead and thrive on this flash of attention as you won't get any more from me.

Sorry I know it's serious but that account comes into my head every time I hit FWR.

I have never seen that before, Pratchet! 'Tis funny and apt.

I don't know about you, but I don't see feminism as an identity. I see it as the movement for the liberation of women and girls from patriarchal control by both society and individual males.

Thanks Pratchet I look forwards to you not interacting with me and pointing out what I do and no not know or who I am or am not that would be great as it will stop threads being derailed like this.

I thought Nic did really well in answering some tough questions and getting the key points out there.

She made the point that women's rights are under threat and why. Also agree that it was good to highlight that Stonewall's position is basically lobbying against women's rights.

Agree the it's good to highlight specific examples. Also that Nick Robinson gets it. Proper grown up journalism grasping the issues and being tough on BOTH sides.

What was most interesting is how far the debate has shifted. This was a two way conversation acknowledging this is a women's rights issue and starting to grasp some of the reasons why. PM said we need to have a 'conversation as a nation' and women have legitimate concerns, that she is listening.

That is a far, far cry from 'purported feminists'.

Well done and thank you Nic and FPFW, WPUK, Man Friday and everyone else working behind the scenes to stand up for women.

Women's Hour discussion also on now.