Interesting article discussing transgender support by schools in the Guardian

[Should1stayorshould1go]

Interesting article discussing transgender support by schools in the Guardian www.theguardian.com/education/2018/may/15/transgender-row-teachers-afraid-challenge-breast-binding

actually has input from both transactivist and gender critical sides!
and an open comments section not yet censored to ribbons!
in the Guardian!

I shall be on my fainting couch for the rest of the afternoon...

This bit is interesting:

"The school has had 12 children, all girls, come out as transgender in the past 18 months. The majority, she says, have autism, and some have experienced sexual abuse."

There's evidence that autism might be linked to elevated prenatal testosterone www.spectrumnews.org/opinion/linking-autism-sex-gender-and-prenatal-hormones/

There's also evidence that prenatal hormone levels influence female/male differences in behaviour and interests, eg girls more interested in people, boys more interested in things.

www.researchgate.net/publication/273146299_Early_androgen_exposure_and_human_gender_development

www.researchgate.net/publication/237560821_Early_Androgens_Are_Related_to_Childhood_Sex-Typed_Toy_Preferences

So one could argue that autistic girls are "biologically" more likely to have male like interests and characteristics, and thus the transfriendly environment where their also autistic/masculine-like peers are transitioning is influencing them to also transition?

But of course testosterone is all a myth

I'm pleasantly surprised to see this. Although I didn't appreciate the quote comparing Transgender Trend to Mein Kamph! How bloody offensive.

(extract from OP Guardian Article)
"Stephanie Davies-Arai, a parenting adviser, launched the Transgender Trend resource pack in February half-term, thinking it would barely get noticed. Instead, she says: “It just blew up”. The LGBT lobby group Stonewall accused Transgender Trend, the organisation Davies-Arai set up two-and-a-half years ago, of spreading “damaging myths, panic and confusion”, and advised local authorities not to use the pack. On Twitter, people piled in, with one describing the pack (which had been checked by lawyers) as a “modern edition of Mein Kampf”.

Davies-Arai says she took an interest in the subject because as a child she had felt herself to be a boy, and she didn’t think it was a good idea to label children like her as transgender because she believes that in some cases, these feelings resolve naturally by the end of adolescence."

Response to Transgender Trend School Pack as reported by Pink News this February,
(extract)
"The publication has been fiercely condemned by the trans youth work organisation, Gendered Intelligence, which accused it of limiting “young people’s access to information and potentially life-saving support.”

Gendered Intelligence told PinkNews: “[The report] encourages schools to humour young trans and gender questioning students, rather than affirming and celebrating them.

Its censorious approach to young people’s futures is intentionally provocative in how it erases the real, lived experiences of trans youth.”

The group also accused Transgender Trends of paranoia and inaccuracy, saying: “Talking about gender diversity and trans lives does not make someone trans, but can only aid an understanding of the broad range of gender expressions and identities that already exist in society.”
www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/02/14/trans-kids-guide-is-inaccurate-and-deeply-damaging-say-lgbt-activists/

some relevant threads here:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3182187-Support-for-Transgender-Trend-Stephanie-Davies-Arai

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3072757-Great-article-about-Transgender-Trend-in-the-Mail-Yes-really

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3166853-Transgender-Trends-new-resource-pack-for-schools

(From the OP Guardian article)
"Claire Birkenshaw, a transgender former headteacher, says the wide range of different advice creates confusion and conflict. “There needs to be clear statutory guidance for schools that incorporates the views of experts from education, the medical profession, the Equality and Human Rights Commission and trans people,” she says. “Rows about a vulnerable and marginalised group in education are not helpful.”

The EHRC is planning to issue guidance of its own next month, something Birkenshaw welcomes. “Schools want to support the transgender young person, but at the same time they’ll be reflecting on how other children may feel, on how staff are going to feel and parents.”

Claire Birkenshaw was interviewed in March by The Guardian.
Link to the article and discussion of points made in the thread below.
OP comment,
"I really don't know what to think about this, but I suspect it's the usual pushy agenda on kids who may be confused about their sexuality. They are just being shoved into the 'transkids' umbrella. I really worry about gay rights and am baffled as to why Stonewall is supporting this.
I mean, good on the teacher for making a stand for her/him/self but some of what the article describes smells like shutting down dissent to me."
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3192837-Transitioned-headteacher-Guardian-article

I thought the gender critical side came out of that looking well balanced and informed.
And not bigotted or batshit. Mein Kamph indeed!

UpstartCrow I agree, breath of fresh air really.

I just made a comment on there that it's bullying to make girls change next to biological boys with penises. It was deleted by moderators

Gosh yes finally some questions are being asked.

Plenty of women commenting there that they would have jumped at the chance to be boys if they had been offered that option as girls struggling with growing up.

I just made a comment on there that it's bullying to make girls change next to biological boys with penises. It was deleted by moderators
Not surprised; the 'pick' comment is typical Guardian on this, but in all the piece is well-balanced.

From OP article:
"Adele Robinson (not her real name), a head of year at a secondary school, shares Davies-Arai’s worries. The school has had 12 children, all girls, come out as transgender in the past 18 months. The majority, she says, have autism, and some have experienced sexual abuse.

When they come out, she says, they have brought in information sourced from Tumblr blogs and YouTube videos. Although her team does its best to “support every child in a loving, kind and compassionate way”, she feels that staff are too frightened to challenge what she sees as harmful practices: “We have chest binders worn in school, which is horrible. If a child was cutting, they would be straight in with a counsellor. Yet damaging developing breast tissue goes unquestioned. It’s a gross failure in terms of child protection.”

Article published by Pink News April 30th as part of its 'Explainer' segment:

"Chest binding is an integral part of the transitioning process for lots of trans men – here’s how it works
As you likely already know, chest-binding is a technique used to make breasts appear smaller. Binders are essentially undergarments that bind the boobs to the body.

Usually used by transgender men or non-binary people, binders are very tight and simply create a flatter chest – though they can be extremely uncomfortable and in some cases, very risky.
However, binding is safe if it’s done with care and a bit of research…" (continues)

God those teachers are opening themselves up to all sorts by allowing use of male staff toilets.

I feel for those male staff who must be uncomfortable and pretty scared of the implications .

Link to PN article:
www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/04/30/chest-binding-transgender-transitioning/

I am so glad I'm not actively teaching at the moment as I would probably get in trouble for not conforming.

I think the Guardian trying to retreat slowly. Someone there has woken up and is thinking "oh f*ck!"

Yes I agree - you can see by the comments that people are not on board at all with the ideology and see it for what it is.

Regressive stereotyping. Let's allow everyone to dress as they please and do what they please but let's not pretend that you can change your biological sex.

I imagine having Shon Faye and Paris Lees in the office would
Peak trans people quite quickly...

The comments are still a playground for the perpetually clueless though. For example, this beauty after commenting about the risks presented by violent men:

The only solution I can see is to view "female only" spaces as a stop gap measure until we can make ALL spaces safe for everyone.

Like many of the comments, men's rights are paramount and women, well, do they actually count as people?

Yea Gods and Goddesses. I don't teach in a school but I've soon got to attend gender diversity training. How will I cope any good drugs that will keep me alert but not caring for half a day?

Do you prefer or , Yet?

fmsfms those studies/narrative articles do not show that hormones influence anything. As best they may show an association.

Angry ... No, no, no! I'm a completely uninhibited drunk mouthing off wise. I need something more numbing. I keep thinking of the scene with the vogon poetry in hitchikers. But thanks anyway.

We need someone to develop headphones that can't be seen if you're not looking super closely for these kinds of occasions. Then you could just nod occasionally to pretend that you were listening.

I thought Susie Green’s comment comment comparing GC concerns about shared bathroom space with apartheid was offensive. There is not a comparison.

Segregation was based on people exactly biologically the same apart from skin colour; it was wrong, and no GC person would suggest otherwise

Whereas self-ID is about biologically male bodies into female space, so concerns are nothing to do with (wrong) ideas of clean/dirty at all, it is about female space being for female bodied people. No-one is saying trans people are dirty, what a bizarre argument, but that female only spaces have been hard fought for and are needed so that women can use the bathroom in privacy. And trans people may need their own bathroom space, but why not exactly that, their own bathroom space?

It’s embarrassing enough changing a tampon when you know another woman is in the next stall, for goodness sake. Noise of toilet paper, clunk of sanitary bin lid, rustle of tampax packet, clunk of sanitary bin lid, more toilet paper, flush, hopefully not emerge with blood on hands. And that is before we get on to flooding or miscarriage. What is wrong with wanting privacy?

There's an interesting range of comments under the article. Definitely worth reading.

I read this! (And commented.)

So happy to see the Guardian actually talking openly about the Emperor not wearing any clothes without shutting down everyone trying to point this fact out!

And allowing comments and likes too!

I hope this brings home to the Guardian editors that TRAs are a tiny, tiny but incredibly vocal minority, and that the vast bulk of the Guardian's readership can see through their bullying.

It is notable how gender-critical the comments are and the likes show very clearly that there is very, very little support on the left for the TRA position.

Which is nice.

I thought Susie Green’s comment comment comparing GC concerns about shared bathroom space with apartheid was offensive. There is not a comparison.

I cannot imagine how offensive black people find comments such as this. I am not black and I find them seriously offensive. Its just ill thought out nonsense to try and sway people into thinking that those who wish to retain sex segregation (in areas where it is needed) are bigots. I think that Green and all will be in for a shock once this reaches the general population properly. I cannot imagine the idea of ending sex segregation is very popular with many people at all, male and female alike.