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Great article about Transgender Trend in the Mail. Yes really.

(82 Posts)
EmpressOfTheSpartacusOceans Sun 29-Oct-17 08:41:01

They got Stephanie's surname wrong but other than that, they actually deserve clicks for this one.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel Sun 29-Oct-17 08:58:57

Hope comments will appear soon.

CuppaTeaAndAJammieDodger Sun 29-Oct-17 09:06:20

”The agreement, known as the memorandum of understanding, which came into effect this month, bans therapists from practising ‘conversion therapy’ – trying to convince people with gender identity issues that they were born the right sex.”

Just when I thought I’d already reached peak trans.

EmpressOfTheSpartacusOceans Sun 29-Oct-17 09:23:19

They've explained it all really clearly. With helpful pictures. Hopefully all those Tory-voting Mail readers will now start frothing!

ALittleBitOfButter Sun 29-Oct-17 09:38:13

It's good but it didn't mention homophobia. In fact there was a gay groomer, leading readers to conflate LGB and T.

DamsonGin Sun 29-Oct-17 09:39:47

You've made me break my run of three years of not clicking on the Fail but actually that wasn't too bad, basically saying don't forget the checks and balances, there might be other reasons some children are questioning their gender identity. The influence and use of social media can be great but it scares me too.

Blanchefleur Sun 29-Oct-17 09:52:04

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Ktown Sun 29-Oct-17 10:02:53

Good grief I give it 10 years before these therapists all get sued but annoyed adults who were taken seriously as teens.
Poor kids should be given the opportunity to discuss trans as mh issues without being encouraged by dodgy therapists.
The NHS needs to start saving for the lawyers bills.
Girls who take testosterone will have really masculinised features e.g. Jawbone, and that cannot be reversed.

BreakfastAtSquiffanys Sun 29-Oct-17 10:13:28

I can't find it at the moment, but there was a really interesting article written a year or two ago, by a young woman who began to transition to male then eventually decide to revert to female.
But in the interim she had a mastectomy and testosterone treatment, both of which left her with irreversible sequelae which means that she will never be totally acceptable as her born sex, which is female.
So sad.

The whole thing shrieks The Emperor's New Gender to me

EmpressOfTheSpartacusOceans Sun 29-Oct-17 10:13:43

Girls who take testosterone will have really masculinised features e.g. Jawbone, and that cannot be reversed.

Also, as in Jazz Jennings, kids who don't go through natural puberty will be stuck with a child's genitals or the surgically altered version. They'll be sterile. How can a child possibly understand the ramifications of a decision like that?

And at the same time doctors refuse to sterilise women in their 20s & 30s because they "might change their mind"...

QueenLaBeefah Sun 29-Oct-17 10:16:42

This has got a huge class action in 10/20 yrs time written all over it. Hope these therapists and doctors have got water tight insurance policies.

nauticant Sun 29-Oct-17 11:33:09

It's good but it didn't mention homophobia.

In terms of what the article is for and the target audience, I disagree. One problem I see on the gender critical side is the urge to raise all of the points that are of concern. But this just induces fatigue in the average reader. Once they feel they're being lectured, chances are they'll switch off.

If the goal is to persuade them, the best thing to do is to pick up a few of the most convincing strands and put the rest to one side (for the moment).

To me, one of the best strands that unfortunately is rarely mentioned is the sterilisation of children/young people. This would get the attention of many people who would otherwise think "pah, not interested in this loony Left stuff".

Datun Sun 29-Oct-17 11:55:51


Agreed. Sterilisation and lack of sexual function.

If puberty blockers are decided at, say aged 9-11, these children are deciding to be permanently sterile and have no sex life at primary school.

It was a massive eye-opener to me when Jazz Jennings was told there wasn’t enough material to create a neo vagina. He is 17 and has never had an orgasm.

There are still, I believe, too few children who have gone through this for there to be much information.

But if you’re not going to create genitalia from existing genitalia, how do you ever create something that can have sexual sensation?

I find it profoundly shocking that puberty blockers, the first stage in transition, are directly responsible for a life of no sexual pleasure.

Jazz clearly wasn’t told. And even if he had been, what would his reaction be at age 11?

How could they not have known this?

nauticant Sun 29-Oct-17 12:02:53

The great thing about the sterilisation discussion point is that it immediately grabs the attention and if anyone then says "what?! tell me more" this leads directly to the points in your post Datun. Anyone who has been "switched on" who then listens to that catalogue of gruesomeness is pretty likely to conclude that something very wrong indeed is going on.

WitchBitchHarpyTerfThatsMe Sun 29-Oct-17 12:07:44

I agree nauticant. What's going on with children within this movement is a good way to get people to listen to the madness that is taking over.

nauticant Sun 29-Oct-17 12:13:32

At which point we've turned into "why oh why won't someone think of the children!" people.

I'm not best pleased sounding like I've come directly from the pages of the Daily Mail, I can tell you. Needs must I suppose.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Sun 29-Oct-17 12:32:56

That memorandum of understanding is terrifying - did no one actually think about it before implementing it?

hackmum Sun 29-Oct-17 12:59:19

Good to see this in the Mail. Of course, they have their own agenda, which is any opportunity to bash the NHS. Still, if the Guardian isn't going to publish this kind of story, we have to rely on people like the Mail to do it.

OlennasWimple Sun 29-Oct-17 13:38:55

My 12 year old doesn't want to have children and thinks that sex is gross. If you asked him whether he was happy to proceed with treatment that would leave him unable to have children or enjoy sex, he absolutely wouldn't object because he doesn't know what he is giving up.

I agree with others that the Mail have pitched this right for their target audience, most of whom would not care less about the cotton ceiling or the other homophobic arguments of the TRAs

BreakfastAtSquiffanys Sun 29-Oct-17 14:22:56

It's so wrong that on the one hand we are banning FGM (quite rightly) as it is child abuse which produces an adult woman with severly altered sexual function, yet allowing, nay promoting giving children drugs which will also mess up their sexual function (either male or female) for the rest of their life.

BreakfastAtSquiffanys Sun 29-Oct-17 14:27:04

Do these pre-treatment councellors say to the child "I know you are unhappy being male, but if we treat you with drugs to stop you becoming an adult male, that doesn't mean when you grow up you will be a normally functioning female"

They should have it explained to them in adult terms.
If they are not old enough to understand sexual feelings and function , they are not old enough to undertand what they are giving up.

OlennasWimple Sun 29-Oct-17 14:40:17

It seems that the DM didn't seek permission to use the photos in their article, though as other Twitter users have pointed out, they are pictures that are freely available because the individual puts them out there as part of their "how to trans" online stuff.

(I was moderately amused to see them black out the nipples on the pre-trans Alex, but not on the post-trans Alex grin)

nauticant Sun 29-Oct-17 14:56:42

I did wonder who had done the redacting. If it was the Daily Mail then that means they're (perhaps inadvertently) going along with Alex having become a man.

HornyTortoise Sun 29-Oct-17 15:23:36

Psychotherapists warned that an agreement between the NHS and professional health bodies on the treatment of transgender people will lead to more children being diagnosed with gender dysphoria – the belief you are born in the wrong body. The agreement, known as the memorandum of understanding, which came into effect this month, bans therapists from practising ‘conversion therapy’ – trying to convince people with gender identity issues that they were born the right sex.

This is actually terrifying

The comments all seem to be gender critical too. Its odd that I agree with DM comments...feels all wrong grin

Gingernaut Sun 29-Oct-17 16:35:31

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