Interesting article discussing transgender support by schools in the Guardian

[Should1stayorshould1go]

Interesting article discussing transgender support by schools in the Guardian www.theguardian.com/education/2018/may/15/transgender-row-teachers-afraid-challenge-breast-binding

actually has input from both transactivist and gender critical sides!
and an open comments section not yet censored to ribbons!
in the Guardian!

I shall be on my fainting couch for the rest of the afternoon...

When the NHS do surveys of mixed sex wards in hospitals they overwhelmingly show that people do not want them. So that is where public opinion is with this.

I thought Susie Green’s comment comment comparing GC concerns about shared bathroom space with apartheid was offensive. There is not a comparison.

I'm fairly sure the comparison with apartheid was used by others in the recent Transpire campaign. I remember feeling shocked that it was used:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3209839-The-Police-making-policy-for-schools?pg=1
OP comment
"The transgender police officer Gina* Denham, used their own organisation 'Transpire' to launch a public social media campaign against the school until they backed down. I'd call that a conflict of interest. I'd be asking whether their behaviour constituted misconduct in a public office? I'd be looking at why this police force is allowing an officer to mix their personal lifestyle choices with their role in law enforcement? I am asking who is safeguarding the rights of girls to privacy, dignity and safety in that school?"
*correct name

When the NHS do surveys of mixed sex wards in hospitals they overwhelmingly show that people do not want them. So that is where public opinion is with this.

Well quite. This surely shows where public opinion actually is?! And I think this is why transactivists and pressure groups are trying to sneak in desegregation of the sexes via backdoor. As once it happens, it will be very hard to undo

I think aswell that people will have even stronger feelings about allowing teen boys into teen girls changing areas and such. There tends to be a stronger public reaction when children are involved. And men may well be the loudest ones in that, men with young daughters for sure.

Its a comparison that has also been used by some TRA in the USA:
eg www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2015/11/10/anti_trans_bathroom_propaganda_has_roots_in_racial_segregation.html

I cannot even open that for fear of my blood pressure..the headline is enough

'antitransbathroompropagandahasrootsinracialsegregation'

Sex segregation is the same as racial segregation? Really?! For fucks sake. Its just offensive beyond words, it really is. Sex segregation is widely accepted by near all who are segregated from each other on basis of sex.

I got a few comments in before they closed, which is rare these days

I do think it's encouraging that the comments on this article and others recently are gender critical overall. There seems to be a few recent articles presenting both sides, but it's notable how there has only been Hadley's article (without comments) that has expressed true GC views. Imagine being a fly on the wall of the Guardian editorial office...

I think the quote about the 12 girls having autism or having experienced abuse shouts more loudly than anything else in the article. Once you learn that, alarm bells start ringing. People are enabled to see the issue for what it is.

Also, if I was black, I cannot begin to imagine how I would feel at TRA's appropriating what my community had faced. It is beyond offensive. Being black and female doesn't make you a member of a subset of womanhood which is on a par with men wearing dresses. Black women are female. They are the same as and equal to every other female on this planet.

A perspective of a parent with a transgender child on the Guardian article:

Rowan - I don't understand twitter. Is there a translation?

The mention of autism reminded me of this study - “I Don't Feel Like a Gender, I Feel Like Myself”: Autistic Individuals Raised as Girls Exploring Gender Identity

www.liebertpub.com/doi/10.1089/aut.2018.0001

I think it might be summarised as, 'here is the evidence of right-wing transphobic radicalisation'

Trans: they're like Nazis, they've got the media in the palm of their hand, and every argument they present is false and disseminated by conspiracy theory methods.

Ahh. That could be open to misinterpretation:

My translation: the gender critical feminists are like Nazis, they've got the media in the palm of their hand, and every argument they present is false and disseminated by conspiracy theory methods.

Thank you both. I thought that was it, but I also thought the twitterer was gender critical Dad. I realise now that it wasn't.

His tweets look paranoid. He's twisted the story entirely. We have no agenda beyond protecting children and vulnerable women. We have no anti-trans agenda. Trans people are welcome to live their lives as they choose, except for the fact they need to respect sex segregation.

I think this parent is involved with Mermaids and has been prominent in campaigning.
twitter.com/DadTrans/with_replies

Some background:

"Some years ago, at a young age, our daughter Sophie first told us they were a girl. This was quite a shock at the time, as we'd thought they were born male. It turned out we were mistaken," says Joe, who tweets as @DadTrans and blogs at Growing Up Transgender with his partner @FierceMum.

"Our acceptance of her identity did not happen overnight. At first we didn't take it seriously. We tried to tell her she could be whatever type of boy she wanted to be, wear what she wanted, play with what she wanted. This was totally missing the point, and simply made her even sadder," he adds.
"Eventually, it got to a point where we had a very depressed child, who felt rejected by her parents. We realised that we were letting her down."

patient.info/health/gender-dysphoria-leaflet/features/how-to-support-your-transgender-child

I think it might be summarised as, 'here is the evidence of right-wing transphobic radicalisation'

Bonus point for claiming MN is where people are 'radicalized' too

Oh its just so ridiculous I would find it amusing if it was not such a serious subject.

This was quite a shock at the time, as we'd thought they were born male. It turned out we were mistaken," says Joe*

Oh for fucks sake. They were born male. They are still male. Having a 'female gender identity' (whatever the fuck that means, as 'female' is a sex descriptor) does not mean the child was not born male, nor that the child is not male now. Jesus christ. I am all for supporting kids to be themselves, but this is just nonsense, thought the child had been born male indeed.

Bonus point for claiming MN is where people are 'radicalized' too

That doesn't look like a household where desisting would be an available option should it be needed.

From the Trans Inclusion Toolkit referenced in the Guardian article

www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/assets/media/East%20Sussex%20schools%20transgender%20toolkit.pdf

3.3 Feedback from consultation with trans* and gender
questioning young people at Transformers
"Transformers is a trans youth group for trans and gender questioning young people, which is part of Brighton & Hove’s Allsorts Youth Project
When asked what their greatest concerns were as a trans pupil or student in school, young trans people at Transformers all agreed that toilet arrangements were a cause for concern.

All of the young people we spoke to had experience of verbal and occasionally physical abuse when using toilets, both in school and outside of school. Their chief concerns were that if they use a toilet which they deem appropriate to their chosen gender, that they will be read as their birth gender and experience prejudice from other pupils or students. Obviously, they do not feel comfortable using toilets appropriate to their genetic sex for the same reason, and for the simple reason, that these are not the right toilets for them to use.
The general consensus among the young people with whom we spoke was that mixed gender toilets are the ideal solution. Many had experience of using the disabled toilets but felt that this was not appropriate for them, because they either felt that they were using a facility which someone else who actually had a disability could be using and there was a certain resentment among a few young people that their trans* status should be seen as a disability"

Oh its just so ridiculous I would find it amusing if it was not such a serious subject.

Oh, I dunno, this got a genuine laugh out of me:

"This was quite a shock at the time, as we'd thought they were born male."

I think the answers to the two scenarios on page 30 of the East Sussex County Council Trans Inclusion Schools Toolkit would be sufficient to make most parents think something has gone very wrong here.

The first responds to the situation where "My daughter doesn't want a boy changing next to her" by saying that it wouldn't be appropriate to remove the trans person from the changing room and that "an alternative changing arrangement" should be found for any girl who feels uncomfortable about it.

The second covers "It's not fair that he enters the 100 metres race for girls when he is a boy" by saying that girls who are unhappy with this "may themselves need to be supported to do a different activity".

It seems hard to believe that the Department for Education is aware that this is what schools are being told to do.

The second scenario, girls' races, is being discussed on a current thread (refers to US)
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3250646-Boys-taking-gold-and-silver-in-girls-athletics