The Roots of Misogynistic Rage(108 Posts)
When one has been on the receiving end of it, it’s like the male is trying to murder(silence) women by destroying them, their lives and spaces in any way possible. They will not bear any woman denying them what they perceive, in their disordered thinking, is their entitlement - to sex, to access to children (as their possessions and /or sex), to unfettered free rein to use and abuse as they see fit for their own ends.
And new research suggests the anger, hostility and short fuse that accompany a man's narcissism tend to be directed toward straight women.
”Heterosexual, narcissistic men become enraged at people who deny them gratification, whether it's social status, having a trophy partner or sexual gratification," said lead study author Scott Keiller, a clinical psychologist and assistant professor of psychology at Kent State University Tuscarawas in Ohio.
From my observation and experience, I think its projected anger often. Many males are conditioned to believe that women owe them. Women are the ideal slaves in their minds. Somehow half-males' character hasn't developed sufficiently to separate out from the idealised slave to the reality of a separate human being. So when a woman says no, disagrees and/or rejects them and their behaviour, the misogynists can't contain that - it doesn't compute in their minds. Somehow their sense of self is immature and toddler like in the “Mum must give or I'll tantrum”. However adult male tantrums are extremely dangerous and harmful to women.
I’ve also observed misogynists have a lot infantile rage at their father, frequently because he is unavailable/violent/ gaslighted them, but the mother's the one more present and available to take their anger out on. She’s also most concerned with their wellbeing often, and is frequently emotionally available for them. When a child can’t take their anger to their father, they displace onto their mother. They copy their role models and it cements into adulthood.
This isn't the source of my supposition however is evidence towards it.
In their final statements, inmates express the most gratitude and sorrow to their mothers. This isn’t too surprising: studies have shown that nearly all death row inmates “have a history of parental abandonment, foster care and/or institutionalization
The ones on death row are the ones who haven’t been groomed into covert abuse – they are the “low-hanging fruit” so to speak. The equally dangerous ones imo, from a societal and individual perspective (unless of course you have already paid with your life), are those who abuse covertly using coercive control, as we see in the latest thuggish behaviour at Bristol. They operate within the letter of the law, if not the spirit, and are enabled by wilful blindness on behalf of politicians, the law, plus its enforcement in its different guises.
I have never been in a sexual relationship with this kind of man and nor have I been attacked.
I have however, together with another woman, issued civil proceedings against such a man and I recognise almost everything you say above from his conduct in the tribunals and courts to which we took him.
"using coercive control, as we see in the latest thuggish behaviour at Bristol. They operate within the letter of the law"
no longer within the letter I think? I give Theresa May some credit for that (unusually probably!)
Whilst the law has been revised, in women's favour - that was mainly due to the efforts of Laura Richards, ex Scotland yard detective, but I concede that May at least listened to her and actioned her recommendations.
I think it one's thing to say it's against the law and another to actually secure a prosecution for a crime against women plus see her male offender(s) all receive an appropriate punishment.
well done Laura Richards. necessary first steps and all that.
Spot on. I think the vast majority of males in our current society have this mindset; it varies only by the degree to which they feel this narcissistic, entitled rage.
The current hostile takeover of women's spaces, language, womanhood etc is a perfect example. Women are supposed to show empathy, budge up, put males before themselves, give up their rights for the benefit of males, and keep quiet about it all. Our resistance enrages them like a two year old who can't have what they want.
Perceptive and accurate article.
I agree a lot with what's already been said and have had several experiences of these types of males. The come back from not doing the expected supposedly womanly thing even from girlhood has ranged from out and out violence to coercive tactics and manlipulation. There is so much societal pressure to suck it up, take it and not rock the boat.
Interesting to think it's projected anger due to the false belief that women somehow owe men everything. That theory may help women not take these interactions and altercations personally....wish i bloody knew that a few years ago myself. Live and learn I suppose.
This is why I've always said, before you get too far into a relationship with a man, say no to him clearly and without any softening language, and see how he reacts. The men with the rage against women can keep it under the surface for a while, but if it's there simmering away then it doesn't take much for the mask to slip. Better than happens early on, and preferably in a public place, so that you can hopefully avoid it happening later in private.
Agree AAK that's a good idea for relationships. It's trickier when it's a family member, authority figure, boss etc. I've noticed some men seem to able to save up their rage for spouses others it's like a leaky tap in general interactions with women.
Which is partly because most societies have traditionally tacitly encouraged the idea that a man's wife and/or children are the appropriate targets for his rage. Punch a stranger and the police may want to have a chat with you, punch your wife and it's a "domestic". There's been some progress made in some countries, but then you look at Russia decriminalizing domestic violence and realize that the underlying ideas haven't gone away.
This is why I've always said, before you get too far into a relationship with a man, say no to him clearly and without any softening language, and see how he reacts. good advice that I will be giving my DDs - the number of times the older one has already been told "he's mean to you because he likes you " about boys is truly depressing. I am countering it I hope. Why? Just why?
Your right it's there simmering away under the surface. I remember being outraged when UKIP members (might have been manifesto) put forth a policy under the guise of cutting crime to stop wasting police resources on 'domestic disputes', also talk of doing away with martial rape law. I knew a woman who was interested in voting for them (pre brexit and she wants brexit) and a previous victim of DV and talked about it with her. She didn't believe that that could happen that people, men, would actively try to undo the laws that try to protect women.
I have seen the parental relationship thing in action exactly as you've said, OP. My ex was outwardly big on equality (but didn't like the word 'feminism' as that somehow implied more equality for women ) and considers himself an educated, left wing guy who is an ally of women. But lurking under there is a huge well of misogyny that he can't even admit to himself). He hates his father, who as an academic takes pains to ensure women are fairly treated and represented but doesn't always use the right 'PC' language. His poor mother gets the brunt of the rage and has been treated like a skivvy for decades by her son. But it's okay, because she 'likes' looking after others and being self sacrificing. That's what makes her happy.
Anyway, it's not just the overtly misogynistic you need to be aware of, ime. Another reason I will not get involved with a man again. I really wish I'd known enough to grill potential partners about their views on women before I got too involved! And challenged them, or said no to them, to test the reaction. Because as soon as something like a baby comes along, or buying a house and allocating housework, or deciding whose career has to take a step back - it becomes plain to see what their views actually are. And if you don't agree, the rage and control emerges. Very few people are unscathed by societal 'norms' that favour men's rights being in their homes, on their tvs, in their workplaces, written into law, and modelled by their parents.
Yes, the conflict comes when kids come along and suddenly resources are stretched. Often someone's needs have to be put first as a matter of the pragmatics of living. I found my left wing, equality-spouting husband was not all that good at walking the walk when my career had to come first. This remains a huge disappointment for me and source of antagonism for us. I've found other forms of control to be as important as rage.
Yes - I see this rage expressed overtly and violently by some men, but also in much subtler ways by men who'd probably never self-define as misogynists. For example:
- an educated middle class man explains something to you. You disagree. He explains again, often with smiles and elaborate courtesy; you've made a mistake, but he doesn't hold that against you, and he'll do his best to help. You disagree again, because he's not right. Suddenly there's a tone shift: impatience, disgust, and just this unbelievable undercurrent of rage: you stupid bitch, I've explained, I've been nice, just fucking shut up and accept it.
I see it on here, sometimes, with male posters; the kind who have a male indicator in their username and start posts with 'ladies, thank you in advance for your time' or similar. A relatively small amount of opposition and it's Jekyll and Hyde: you stupid fucking bitches, why don't you get it? How fucking dare you disagree when I've explained so patiently?
And, yes, people of both sexes can get frustrated when arguing with someone, but I only see this specific sudden switch from condescension to rage when it's men explaining to women. And behaviour that would be considered irritating from man to man (overtalking, excessive correction, pedantry, monopolising the conversation) becomes absolutely intolerable when a woman does it.
Obschan literally witnessed this in an interaction in a business deal going off the boil last week. He was all Mr Nice, don't you see how im just trying to help you, let me tell you how you need to understand this, he got a no and my god how his mood changed. Soooo unprofessional. He's now sulking and won't communicate. No idea how men like this work without a minder or something.
JustOneMan when I read your comment it came across as mansplaining and dismissive of what the post is about - it's not just male dominance tactics as you describe.
Women get attacked, maimed and killed by the million daily because of it. It's not mere male-jostling for position nor a belief of ours, but a war on women and a reality. We don't just "feel" it - that's an incredible minimisation of male violence upon women and a putdown.
What's is it that is so hard for you to comprehend about the scale and sheer brutality of the problem?
Spot on OP. You asked me to cross post this - a comment I made on a different thread
In some cases, yes. In others, I strongly suspect that it is because they feel that history has denied them the privilege of having women as their legal inferiors. I honestly think that a large number of men see women as things, not people. In some cases, it is all about anger that women won't spread their legs on demand. I also suspect that a lot of the hatred that some gay men have for women is not about wanting to be women, but about not having a woman (like their het counterparts) to feed their egos and do their shit work. Finally, I think it is about the way sons are raised by so many mothers where a woman sacrifices herself for the prodigal son (all very Freudian). Men expect all women to act like that and they don't. Yeah, probably offended everybody now.
FWIW - the man I had in mind when writing this is gay.
Anyway - the above highly subjective, just my own personal (male) perspective on this, and quite possibly completely wrong...
I'm sure you meant...
Anyway - the above highly subjective, just my own personal (male) perspective on this, and
quite possibly without doubt completely wrong...
AAK thank you thank you for this This is why I've always said, before you get too far into a relationship with a man, say no to him clearly and without any softening language, and see how he reacts
I have two daughters & I will squirrel this away for when they are older. Actually maybe you should pop over to the nice daughters thread & add it there?
I've often thought that heterosexual misogynists must find themselves in an uncomfortable psychological place. They hate women, but unless they want to be single and celibate for the rest of their then, they also need them. There must be huge cognitive dissonance in seeing a group of people as simultaneously both inferior and desirable.
I worry about the roots of misogyny myself, having two small sons. I am the more strict parent and often tell them off; I try to phrase it clearly and be reasonable, but I am telling them off. The look of smouldering resentment on DS1's face is palpable, and I worry about what it will turn into as he grows up. DS2 OTOH has a little shout and strop, then comes to me for a cuddle. I worry less about him.
Basically I think that it's a delicate interplay btw nature and nurture, and that some boys are easily rendered into misogynistic arseholes than others. I am trying very very hard not to let this happen to DS1....
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