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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The Roots of Misogynistic Rage

107 replies

womanformallyknownaswoman · 23/04/2018 08:21

When one has been on the receiving end of it, it’s like the male is trying to murder(silence) women by destroying them, their lives and spaces in any way possible. They will not bear any woman denying them what they perceive, in their disordered thinking, is their entitlement - to sex, to access to children (as their possessions and /or sex), to unfettered free rein to use and abuse as they see fit for their own ends.

And new research suggests the anger, hostility and short fuse that accompany a man's narcissism tend to be directed toward straight women.
”Heterosexual, narcissistic men become enraged at people who deny them gratification, whether it's social status, having a trophy partner or sexual gratification," said lead study author Scott Keiller, a clinical psychologist and assistant professor of psychology at Kent State University Tuscarawas in Ohio.

www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=118736

From my observation and experience, I think its projected anger often. Many males are conditioned to believe that women owe them. Women are the ideal slaves in their minds. Somehow half-males' character hasn't developed sufficiently to separate out from the idealised slave to the reality of a separate human being. So when a woman says no, disagrees and/or rejects them and their behaviour, the misogynists can't contain that - it doesn't compute in their minds. Somehow their sense of self is immature and toddler like in the “Mum must give or I'll tantrum”. However adult male tantrums are extremely dangerous and harmful to women.

I’ve also observed misogynists have a lot infantile rage at their father, frequently because he is unavailable/violent/ gaslighted them, but the mother's the one more present and available to take their anger out on. She’s also most concerned with their wellbeing often, and is frequently emotionally available for them. When a child can’t take their anger to their father, they displace onto their mother. They copy their role models and it cements into adulthood.

This isn't the source of my supposition however is evidence towards it.

In their final statements, inmates express the most gratitude and sorrow to their mothers. This isn’t too surprising: studies have shown that nearly all death row inmates “have a history of parental abandonment, foster care and/or institutionalization.” Typically, the mother is more present than the father in their lives.

priceonomics.com/what-death-row-inmates-say-in-their-last-words/

The ones on death row are the ones who haven’t been groomed into covert abuse – they are the “low-hanging fruit” so to speak. The equally dangerous ones imo, from a societal and individual perspective (unless of course you have already paid with your life), are those who abuse covertly using coercive control, as we see in the latest thuggish behaviour at Bristol. They operate within the letter of the law, if not the spirit, and are enabled by wilful blindness on behalf of politicians, the law, plus its enforcement in its different guises.

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Greymisty · 23/04/2018 17:22

This is messy thinking but anyway....From life experience I don't think it's what mother's do or don't do that creates rage inside men. At best mothers/parents can encourage the sow of seeds of critical thinking and empathy within men - its up to the indivdual if they cultivate them further. Society supports the devaluing of women, objectification, othering, etc. An indivdual mother cannot be so imposing and all consuming that she overrides the wider world.

LaContessaDiPlump · 23/04/2018 17:29

You've not met me Greymisty Smile seriously though, I believe that for a lot of men the anger against women is a rebellion against 'petticoat government', as they used to call it....

LaContessaDiPlump · 23/04/2018 17:30

That includes teachers, matrons, nurses etc.... Not just mums.

Greymisty · 23/04/2018 17:39

Had to Google the phrase! If that was the whole story though why wouldn't it apply to women? Why wouldn't the opening to this thread apply to women? Over attentive mothers, absent or emotional absent fathers. Wheres the lady the rage in crime statistics?

Sorry this is mostly rhetorical also I know I sound about three ask "why tho?!" Over and over again.

LaContessaDiPlump · 23/04/2018 17:58

Greymisty I was musing on that myself. I thought maybe it's because girls turn into women themselves. Boys never used to turn into women still don't and so it was much easier to think of women as a whole other species, one lower than you due to society/your physical strength, which you can and should bully as you choose. I think maybe girls escape this fate because they become the creatures they disliked growing up and have more chance to realise that actually those grumpy women were just people too, mostly with some justification for their attitudes.

Anyway. That's my musings as I make dinner Grin

MadBadDaddy · 23/04/2018 18:24

"say no to him clearly and without any softening language, and see how he reacts" - Inspired! You may have located the jugular vein of a man's relational ability.

Sarahjconnor · 23/04/2018 18:39

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MessyBun247 · 23/04/2018 19:14

‘This is why I've always said, before you get too far into a relationship with a man, say no to him clearly and without any softening language, and see how he reacts.’

Great advice that all women should hear. If only someone had told me this when I was 15.......

Greymisty · 23/04/2018 19:15

LaContessaDiPlump I think I would be more inclined to believe that if I hadn't met men who were socially isolated due to illness/disability (from birth or early life) and surrounded mostly by women. Lots of petticoats. By being outside the 'norms' of mainstream masculinity (ie not physically strong) they were free of the social pressures which men impose on men. (This btw is not saying having a disability is barrels of fun just in case anyone reading is not clear on that.) This resulted in some great men who developed varied interests and had rich lives and were frankly more interesting than the average bloke....for instance not one mention of protein shakes or football Grin

LaContessaDiPlump · 23/04/2018 22:06

They sound like they'd be interesting to know, Greymisty - not least in their guise as living social experiments! I think we're probably in agreement that it's the overarching structure of 'Men are king and women serve to accomodate them' that is the main thing at fault. I think if that wasn't there then even the resentful boys would eventually grow up and realise their mums weren't deliberately being arseholes at least some of the time because I'm HUMAN dammit

CritEqual · 23/04/2018 22:27

Here is an article on one of the biggest predictor of developing empathic and considerate children. Spoiler Alert it's father's, who also have a hand in the development of altruism and generosity:

www.chron.com/life/mom-houston/article/A-dad-s-influence-in-raising-empathetic-and-8196087.php

MadBadDaddy · 24/04/2018 01:26

Man in a boa & tiara = ideal wholesome dad? I thought only I knew that.

thebewilderness · 24/04/2018 01:46

You might (and I stress might) be over-thinking this.

No, we aren't. We are all conditioned into the dominance/submission paradigm in our respective cultures.
Aggrieved entitlement is the root cause of male violence.

womanformallyknownaswoman · 24/04/2018 04:27

@YetAnotherSpartacus

In others, I strongly suspect that it is because they feel that history has denied them the privilege of having women as their legal inferiors. I honestly think that a large number of men see women as things, not people. In some cases, it is all about anger that women won't spread their legs on demand.

Re gay men, I’ve frequently sensed their anger towards women - it’s like they’re saying "fuck you, I can't bear to have sex with you". And they all complain, ime, about domineering mothers. They are so angry with their mothers…some of which is bound to be true and also I imagine some are very angry at not being good enough in their fathers eyes. Because the father won't take this anger, it's misplaced from their fathers onto the mothers.

Re women as objects - I think many boys are raised to not feel and be totally selfish - and that behaviour gets rewarded. I’ve been observing some younger guys I know in a work context - they literally don’t see and don’t hear women - as though we don’t exist. It’s like they recognise men as “their species” but women aren’t like them, so they ignore them mainly, only turning to them when they need something from you. And woe betide you if you refuse. This latter is viewing women as utility - like a ball for their use and abuse - they hate a no from women as though the ball just spoke back and therefore has to be kicked to the side as it’s not playing along any more.

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womanformallyknownaswoman · 24/04/2018 04:28

@LangCleg

Your last comment made me laugh out loud - which I sorely needed - thank you.

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womanformallyknownaswoman · 24/04/2018 04:45

@CritEqual

I agree with you - it’s the fathers who make or break a boy and women pay the price in adulthood, This phrase stood out from the article you linked to:

Kids that grow up with fathers learn to self-regulate and control themselves more than children who are raised fatherless (in homes where dads were engaged and modeling self-control and acting responsibly).

So if you have a good dad teaching boys, you get men of character who treat women with respect. However, where a man has been rejected by a woman because of his abuse to her - why do we expect him to be fit for purpose to raise “good men”? Lundy Bancroft says mums are better off raising children without an abusive man in their life because of the damage they do - but these abusers view the kids as their possessions and demand access which is often enabled by the family court.

My main point from the post was that boys have a lot of anger to fathers who abandoned/abused or just weren’t emotionally available for them. These types of fathers won't accept any anger towards them as legitimate and they blame the boy for feeling that way - they gaslight, ridicule, dismiss etc. They leave the child with it. And it morphs into rage eventually. It's actually the fathers projected rage onto the child and is left with the child to "digest" and when he can't, he "vomits it his mum" simplistically, but now it's getting complicated.

This boy rage and anger gets displaced onto the mother and women, because the father won't accept it whilst women are socialised to accept or perhaps not know how to turn it back. So it’s not the mother’s fault nor ours, but the absent fathers who blame the mother and/or who unfairly leave the child with their rage.

And it's also why it's hard to raise well-rounded boys if the father leaves all the disciplining to the mum - (good cop/bad cop) - that plays into "it's all her fault".

BTW after reading all this, I just want to congratulate all mums for the great job you do...

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womanformallyknownaswoman · 24/04/2018 04:49

@AngryAttackKittens

Great advice re testing the man early on in the relationship - I have used it to great effect in many walks of life. Shame I wasn't armed earlier…..It's hard for many to do, I suspect, if he's love-bombing and they are in his thrall.

Also thx for that interchange on the earlier thread that led me to compose this post - I'm pleased I did!

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DancelikeEmmaGoldman · 24/04/2018 05:01

I've been the target of rage from a transwomen. I was threatened with serious physical harm (I will come to your house, tie you to a tree and break your legs), had my house vandalised and my animals and other humans put at serious risk of harm through their actions.

Both perpetrators (the transperson and male partner) received criminal convictions in court last year.

I have long been gender dubious, but have worked respectfully with transpeople and have a TIM in my immediate family, so I wish no harm to people just living their lives, however they present.

This person had lived in the community as a woman for a long time, but the rage and violence were very male, and affirmed my belief that presenting as a woman does not trump male socialisation and aggression.

Because if this I am not sanguine that the threats from TRAs against women they identify as "TERFs", will not escalate into more real-life violence as women oppose them.

AnotherQuoll · 24/04/2018 05:45

Doesn't help that anger, rage and violence are regarded as masculine, and in popular media such as movies, often admired as justified & heroic eg Reluctant hero, O'Connor pushed too far' once does the rage-face and shouty stuff, and with that, overcomes his pacifism/fear and avenges whatever. It marks when he 'becomes a real man'.

By contrast, girls and women who show anger are very quickly put back their their box, punished for stepping outside of femininity.

TheClitterati · 24/04/2018 05:48

This thread has been like reading about my life - so insightful and absolutely correct. Abusive XP ticks every box.

Strangely he has been much "nicer" lately - since he has new P. But DC have also been subject to his abusive which is ramping up. I am about to say NO to him Re future contact and I am expecting narsisstic rage in return. Perhaps he has not yet revealed himself to his new P / if so the rage may be suppressed/delayed for a bit but it will come.

I was conditioned into this by my father - also described here. And male bosses - creative business types, narsisstic, indulged. For a while I thought I had some kind of special talent in being able to work with them when others couldn't. My threshold for abuse was "so high" - I could be around them, damaging myself, pleasing them with my ability to be in the centre of their storm, feeding them. Oh wow things have been fucked up.

I'm not like that now. I only engage with pleasant respectful balanced men - they do exist. I am very wary though.

This week I am facing the rage all over again defending my DC. I am accessing support. I need help. I deserve help as do my dc. I've had to learn this - I'm sure it is fundamental to many, but I'm telling myself constantly that I deserve support and protection from this. Sad

Thank you for this thread. So timely.

AnotherQuoll · 24/04/2018 05:48

I don't know why "O'Connor" is there. Typed "is finally..".

Ereshkigal · 24/04/2018 08:19

This is such a good thread. We need to unpack this.

LangCleg · 24/04/2018 08:35

This is such a good thread. We need to unpack this.

Yes, it is! I don't have much to add but am reading with great interest.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 24/04/2018 10:28

I get that this is about rage ... but much of the above also describes some very typical male behaviours more broadly - entitlement, it being all about them, seeing women as objects or things, etc.

LaSqrrl · 24/04/2018 10:39

Patriarchy is the 'societal level' version of 'domestic violence'.
That's pretty much all you need to know. Most of the same rules (on a societal level) apply to the one-to-one level.

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