Skip to main content
Skip to main navigation
Skip to talk navigation

Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Saved Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

Flip

1 2 3

Feminism: Sex & gender discussions

Scottish GRA

60 replies

Agerbilatemycardigan · 21/03/2018 12:26

Have just seen this on Twitter. Trying to get my head around it, so am hoping that somebody a lot more clued up than me can shed some light on it. I just know that it's not likely to be a good thing.

"The Scottish Govts newly passed gender bill, the Gender Representation on Public Boards (Scot) Bill, has redefined the language used in the GRA. A person is no longer reassigned a gender. This legislation now defines it as 'becoming female'."

OP posts:

Report

Freshlylaidterf · 21/03/2018 12:39

WTF ?? I didn't see this as not on twitter . Can you please post a clicky link. thanks

Waddlelikeapenguin · 21/03/2018 12:41

Link would be great.
Off to breathe deeply in the beautiful scottish countryside ....

Freshlylaidterf · 21/03/2018 12:43

www.parliament.scot/parliamentarybusiness/Bills/105197.aspx
found this. It says
Current Status of the BillThis Scottish Government Bill was introduced by the Cabinet Secretary for Communities, Social Security and Equalities, Angela Constance MSP, on 15 June 2017. Received Royal Assent on 9 March 2018

Freshlylaidterf · 21/03/2018 12:44

oops sorry posted too soon. Does royal assent mean its now law? Not my area - sorry

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 21/03/2018 12:48

The Scottish Govts newly passed gender bill, the Gender Representation on Public Boards (Scot) Bill, has redefined the language used in the GRA. A person is no longer reassigned a gender. This legislation now defines it as 'becoming female'. t.co/IgScDIAbLg

The GRA doesn't actually believe that a man can become female. It's purpose was to give a transsexual person legal recognition t.co/GrkJ1eE86K

The Equality Act 2010 clearly uses the word 'reassign'. To reallocate, to rename, to reappoint, to give, to transfer.
Nothing to do with 'becoming'. To evolve into, to metamorphose, to turn into, to transform, change into

A male cannot ever become a female.
Words matter. t.co/C2JGO54wRp

The language has changed from
.... undergoing a process for the purpose of 'reassigning the persons sex by changing physiological or other attributes of sex' ..... to t.co/gCPKMfwCER

to quite simply
..... undergoing a process for the purpose of 'becoming female' ........ t.co/d4jMwAUNNd

Original posts show screenshots of relevant sections of law.

Agerbilatemycardigan · 21/03/2018 12:51

Thanks!

OP posts:

Freshlylaidterf · 21/03/2018 12:52

its says
to improve the representation of women in non-executive positions on public boards well, great but then..
the Bill is inclusive of transgender people
I may be wrong but it looks to me like its just this bill. I cant see nay reference to the GRA

Freshlylaidterf · 21/03/2018 12:53

thanks itsall

Agerbilatemycardigan · 21/03/2018 12:55

I'm still a tad confused, but some people didn't seem too happy about it.

OP posts:

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 21/03/2018 13:14

Its because it is changing the definition of gender reassignment in a law, apparently without realising it.

So previously in the Equality Act:

. undergoing a process for the purpose of 'reassigning the persons sex by changing physiological or other attributes of sex' .

To in this new act

Undergoing a process for the purpose of becoming [in this case] female.

So we've moved from reassignment by changing attributes of sex, to becoming female. It is a recognition in law that men can literally become women, the law did not previously state this.

Bejazzled · 21/03/2018 13:20

So they've actually made this law?

Agerbilatemycardigan · 21/03/2018 13:27

Apparently so. They had the consultation and have decided to change a few words on the documents. According to a few people that I've spoken to today, it's now law. I'm trying to find out a bit more about it to clarify things in my head.

OP posts:

ScarletBegonias · 21/03/2018 13:28

The Act, in its definition section, says that :
"woman" includes a person who has the protected characteristic of gender reassignment (within the meaning of section 7 of the Equality Act 2010) if, and only if, the person is living as a woman and is proposing to undergo, is undergoing or has undergone a process (or part of a process) for the purpose of becoming female.
I'm certainly not a lawyer but I read this as taking the protected characteristic from the Equality Act and putting what sounds like a limitation on it ("if and only if") for the purposes of this new Act. Is that a problem?

ScarletBegonias · 21/03/2018 13:31

And yes, if it's got Royal Assent it's now law. Although the provisions won't necessarily have all come into effect at Royal Assent. There may be a Commencement Order kicking around somewhere saying when particular provisions come into force.

Janie143 · 21/03/2018 13:35

What constitutes the "process" though? If it is signing a form ........ One would think that the processes itself would need to be defined in law to make it meaningful

Bejazzled · 21/03/2018 13:36

Men can't "become" women surely?

Lemonjello · 21/03/2018 13:39

Does this mean that instead of having to have a GRC to be considered legally ‘female’, one now only has to have the protected characteristic of gender reassignment?

CecilyNeville · 21/03/2018 13:43

This shows the intent of the Scottish government, in how they intend to go forward with their sex and gender legislation.

The wording in this Act of "becoming female" is astonishing. Not only are they taking the word 'woman', they are now taking and reinterpreting the word 'female' as well.

ScarletBegonias · 21/03/2018 13:44

As I read it, this is just about who counts as a woman for the purpose of getting equal representation of men and women on Scottish public boards. I don't think it has effect for any other purposes - but it may well be an unwelcome change in approach to definitions.

CecilyNeville · 21/03/2018 13:54

Scarlet, that's exactly it. It is a precedent for how they will word and frame future legislation.

MarSeeAh · 21/03/2018 14:05

Should I contact my MSP and ask "When my dog becomes human will her age be counted in dog years or human years?"

If he tells me that that's ludicrous and impossible, then I can say that it's no more ludicrous or impossible than a male becoming female.

Janie143 · 21/03/2018 14:09

So the board could be 100% men who are "living as women" and intend to change into females sometime Awesome thank

Don’t want to miss threads like this?

Weekly

Sign up to our weekly round up and get all the best threads sent straight to your inbox!

Email address

Log in to update your newsletter preferences.

You've subscribed!

SnibbleAgain · 21/03/2018 14:11

Oh wow

So "becoming female"

So not just woman, girl, gone as ways of describing cunty people
But "female" as well

Thus the erasure of "women as a class" is complete.

There is literally no word to describe cunty people any more as a discrete group, in law, in scotland.

Awesome.

Janie143 · 21/03/2018 14:15

MarSeeAh when that happens maybe you could claim carers or child benefit if your dog is 16, or up to 19 and in full time education

Ereshkigal · 21/03/2018 18:12

What constitutes the "process" though? If it is signing a form ........ One would think that the processes itself would need to be defined in law to make it meaningful

This mirrors the Equality Act and no there is no definition of the "process" in law.

Flip

1 2 3

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.