Ok so someone educate me about neo vaginas **Title edited by MNHQ at the OP's request**

[AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth]

Because lot of people on twitter appear to think that women piss out of their vaginas.

So with that particular piece of 'advanced biology', what happens with a newly constructed vagina?

And er. maybe some will be disappointed with the plumbing?

[thebewilderness]

In my opinion one of the cruelest things the medical profession and trans advocates have done is to convince young men that they are signing up for a vaginal transplant, an organ transplant, rather than castration with a surgically created cavity.
I do not know what to say about people so ignorant that they think babies come out of the woman's bladder.

[AssassinatedBeauty]

I wonder, is this confusion caused because so many people use vagina to refer to the vulva?

[NoMudNoLotus]

"Surgically created cavity "

I have cared for women who have had vaginoplasty - the vulva appears like a vulva.

Those i have cared for have always been happy with the result and happy with their orgasms.

[AssassinatedBeauty]

Assigned was specifically talking about a neovagina not the external appearance of a surgically created vulva.

[IrkThePurist]

In medical terms a neovagina is a blind fistula. If it's made from skin, then it produces sebum, contains bacteria and sometimes hair, and needs to be cleaned every day. It also needs to be dilated for several hours a day, or it will self heal - close up.

A vagina is a muscular organ, lined with self cleaning mucus membrane, that links the womb to the outside world. Many women can climax from vaginal penetration.
The two are not comparable.

Imo, if you are telling clients they will get a vagina they should be able to sue you.

[thebewilderness]

NoMudNoLotus
You have dealt with the fortunate few then. There are a significant number of post surgical trans who say they were deceived as well as many who suicide.

[PositivelyPERF]

NoMud how can they orgasm? Not being goady. I honestly didn't think they could orgasm.

[QuentinSummers]

There's some details here (apols for DM link)
www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-4529182/Data-transgender-surgeries-reveals-surge-demand.html

I find some of these threads quite distasteful. A lot of the time posters say in their opinion someone has to have SRS before they can use womens space (almost like thats a "test"). But the operation is very intrusive, doesn't always have good results and doesn't actually create a vagina.
I actually find it counterproductive to suggest surgery creates a vagina (it doesn't, it creates the appearance of) and I don't think it is relevant at all to someone's trans status whether or not they have had it done.
I'm with Germaine on this.

[KennDodd]

NoMudNoLotus Can you please say a bit more about this?

[PiffleandWiffle]

I do not know what to say about people so ignorant that they think babies come out of the woman's bladder.

It's generational, up to the 80's (maybe 90's) "vagina" was used as a catch all for everything.

How do you feel about people who say "stomach" when they mean "tummy"? It's the same thing - but as long as people understand what you mean it's not so important.

TBH, 99% of the time people use slang words anyway as the "medical" terms sound too pretentious or make them uncomfortable.

[FabulouslyGlamorousFerret]

The disgust, contempt and hatred for all things trans on here really shocks me, even the CBB thread is full of snide digs.

I get the issues that people have, I even agree to a certain extent but ffs, the vitriol is a whole new level. It's akin to the hatred shown towards the likes child killers and rapists.

[PiffleandWiffle]

The disgust, contempt and hatred for all things trans on here really shocks me

Have a look at the trans campaign & how it deals with critics. At least no-one on MN threatens to burn people to death etc etc....

[PiffleandWiffle]

It's akin to the hatred shown towards the likes child killers and rapists

That's interesting, because I do believe that some of the actions taken against children thought to be trans are child abuse & those performing/prescribing them should be jailed....

[LassWiTheDelicateAir]

I find this thread pretty offensive, starting from the tone of the title.

Why do you care OP? You are never going to have a neo vagina. If any one you know does it will be up to them whether they tell you anything about it.

This forum goes to great lengths to inform that many/ the majority of trans women do not have surgery and makes the distinction often between "old school transexuals" who do and those who don't- the point being the former present no danger and the latter might.

This sort of thread does you no favours if you want serious consideration of the problems arising from trans issues given the mocking and faux pity tone adopted towards the trans women who on other threads are praised or at least accepted as being no threat.

[LangCleg]

So with that particular piece of 'advanced biology', what happens with a newly constructed vagina?

Basically, they shorten the male urethra and reposition it so that the person can then urinate while sitting down. Possible side effects: fistula, urine stream direction, incontinence.

[Terrylene]

I think transsexual MTF get what they want, that does what they want, and if that fulfils their needs, it is all that matters really.

I am not sure about the results of FTM though.

And it is very concerning that very young people who are put on puberty blockers and cross sex hormones then more go on to have surgery than would have otherwise. When you are that age, things are more black and white and a year is forever. You are more likely to believe the results will give you what you want and less likely to believe how much your priorities can change. Even the best counselling in the world does not replace lived experience. What you want is sometimes what your parents want, what you have grown up to think you want, what your parents don't want - there is a lot to disentangle before you can be sure. And how can you understand what you are giving up when you haven't explored all the possibilities.

[Terrylene]

Faceicle - from what I understand, they put the urethral opening (meatus) in what appears to be the usual place.

Are the twitter TRAs just doing the usual biological-name-for-the-wrong-bit?

[JessicaEccles]

But how can you orgasm? Or is it that REAL women experience only vaginal orgasms?

[busyboysmum]

My worry about all this is that children are being sold a lie. I'm not too bothered about adults - they can look into it and make their own informed decisions.

But when you are telling a child, it's fine if you don't want to be a boy. You can easily be a girl that just isn't true. We need the true facts about these surgeries to come out. We don't need the problems suppressing. Why on earth would you take a perfectly healthy body with no medical problems and turn it into one that needs constant medication and surgery? How is that a good outcome?

These children need it explaining that if they think they will become a woman with a normal family life then they are very much mistaken. How will they find a man to love them? I'm sure most straight men wouldn't go for a man whether or not he still had his penis.

It is not being kind to these children to encourage them down this road. It should be a last resort when all counselling has failed.

[MaidOfStars]

A vagina is a muscular organ with a mucous membrane that self-lubricates and self-cleans.

A neovagina is a blindended amuscular tunnel lined with epidermis that neither lubricates nor cleans.

[MaidOfStars]

Or, more clearly, what Irk said.

[Terrylene]

But how can you orgasm?

The penis is in three sections with the glans at the end. They rearrange it so the glans forms the clitoris, and the two shafts go around where the vagina will be. The third section is where the urethra is and this it shortened and put between the new clitoris and where the vagina will be. The vagina is made from the skin of the penis and grafts from the scrotum skin and space made between the muscles and connective tissues. What skin is left is arranged to form folds for labia. Most of the blood vessels and nerves are kept in place, so they will be able to orgasm just the same. Long term rearrangement of hormones might not help though.

[LangCleg]

But how can you orgasm? Or is it that REAL women experience only vaginal orgasms?

This is something to do with re-fashioning the glans of the penis as a neo-clitoris.

Look. This is serious surgery that carries big risks and the possibility of some serious side effects. But it doesn't create a vagina. It is cosmetic surgery designed to deal with acute, desperate levels of body dysphoria.

I am also uncomfortable with the nuts and bolts of it being something to mock or denigrate. But, that said, objective, factual information is important. Cosmetic. Surgery. Does. Not. Change. Sex. Neither does vaginoplasty replicate, other than by superficial appearance, a woman's vagina and vulva.