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What happens when the Scouts outsources its policy writing to Mermaids?

(65 Posts)
pisacake Sun 03-Dec-17 20:16:41

It's as mad as you'd expect.

members.scouts.org.uk/supportresources/4228/gender-identity-supporting-young-people?cat=377,378&moduleID=10

"Gender identity issues do not just affect adults; children even as young as 2 years old can be diagnosed with ‘gender dysphoria’ or ‘gender identity disorder’."

Start em young!

"The young person has a right to be treated as their true gender irrespective of what stage they are at. "

where true gender presumably means their 'trans' gender, because nobody ever ever changes their mind, right?

Disabled toilets are a no-go, sorry they are trans toilets now :

"refer to and label toilets appropriately (e.g. ‘unisex/accessible toilets’ rather than ‘disabled’)"

Binding your breasts is completely normal and harmless

"Young people who are developing breasts may strap down their chest, to make it less obvious. This is called ‘binding’ and it is important to respect the young person’s decision to do this."

"If you have young people who are binding their chests, monitor them carefully during particularly physical activities (such as rock climbing) and hot temperatures. There is a chance that the binding could cause discomfort or even impair breathing, and it may be necessary to subtly offer more breaks."

Wonder what the protocol is if you collapse because you can't fucking breathe? Is it transphobic to remove the binder?

Girls and boys toilets also transphobic

"Wherever possible, select a venue that has unisex toilet facilities "

Always prioritise the feelings of the trans person above everyone else.
"There is no rule in Scouting stating that young people must be split by gender for sleeping arrangements. "
"Sharing with other young people of their true gender (or their biological sex if they would prefer), either in large or small tents with their trusted friends."

members.scouts.org.uk/supportresources/4227

"What causes it?
The most recent scientific research suggests that it is strongly associated with the development of the brain in the womb."

Hmm, do the Scouts have a biology badge?

members.scouts.org.uk/supportresources/4229

"People who are transgender have a right to be treated as their acquired gender, regardless of what (if any) medical or legal steps they have taken. "

WRONG. They have a right not to be discriminated against, except where lawful.

"You do not need to ask for proof for their records to be altered (e.g. to show their Gender Recognition Certificate).
"

Yeah who needs to bother with silly paperwork, it's not like record keeping is important or anything, amirite?

ZooeyAndFranny Sun 03-Dec-17 20:21:09

In a misguided attempt to be open-minded, their brain has fallen out.

CertainHalfDesertedStreets Sun 03-Dec-17 20:22:27

YABU

If girls want to bind their breasts they are just going to have to sit out more. Maybe fanning themselves. Should be fine. 'Cos of the blue brain innit?

averylongtimeago Sun 03-Dec-17 20:22:29

I looked up the scouts rules on trans members after being shocked at the change in gguk's rules.

Ffs how can they normalise this, "children as young as two" "breast binding at camp"
It just makes me so angry.

CertainHalfDesertedStreets Sun 03-Dec-17 20:23:01

Zooey I think you nailed it there grin

ZooeyAndFranny Sun 03-Dec-17 20:24:44

Because breast-binding is so much easier, healthier and right on, than, say, having some counseling about body dysmorphia.

doctorcuntybollocks Sun 03-Dec-17 20:26:28

I always take my cue
From children as young as two
It's the liberal thing to do
My brain is made of poo

HermioneWeasley Sun 03-Dec-17 20:27:43

It is depressing and alarming that seemingly nobody in a position of influence questions this dogma. It’s obviously bonkers.

QuietNinjaTardis Sun 03-Dec-17 20:34:10

Your 3rd link is about adult volunteers. Haven't read the others yet but I will. Oh and I agree with you I'm just pointing it out about the third link.

pisacake Sun 03-Dec-17 20:48:09

Yes i should have made it clear that the third link was saying that adult male volunteers can claim to be women and they should accept this unquestioningly

Gacapa Sun 03-Dec-17 21:16:05

I often wonder if there's something in the nature of all this - a sort of perfect storm of postmodernism/cognitive dissonance/absurdism - which has meant that an epiphany is the only thing which works to remove the blinkers from people's eyes?

Remember that thing with the dress on the internet a year or two back? At first I saw it as gold. Then I read about looking at it but also trying to notice the background at the same time. I did. And it then looked blue. And I could never see it as gold again. Even if I tried. And I couldn't understand how it had ever looked remotely gold. That's a bit like peak trans.

Now I just think "what the fuck are you on about? This is absolute garbage."

It's like some creepy and uncanny contagion. I start seething and raging and don't understand HOW THEY CAN'T GET IT!

QuarksandLeptons Sun 03-Dec-17 21:29:16

Someone needs to legally challenge Mermaids and massively publicise the outcome.

They need to be shut down.

This is insane. A completely unmedically qualified pressure group led by a mother who defied NHS rules and took her child abroad to be castrated is now taken as a leading authority on how to manage children.

pisacake Sun 03-Dec-17 21:32:27

"If girls want to bind their breasts they are just going to have to sit out more. Maybe fanning themselves. Should be fine. 'Cos of the blue brain innit?"

They are boys you evil transphobic murderer. Boys don't fan themselves.

Blame it on man flu.

ferntwist Sun 03-Dec-17 21:32:48

Extremely worrying. Mermaids were banned by the High Court recently from contact with a seven-year-old boy after helping his abusive mother force him to live as a girl. And now they’ve got the ear of the Scouts.

notafish Mon 04-Dec-17 09:10:03

Two things I notice about all these guidelines:

Gender reassignment is a protected characteristic under the Equality Act 2010, placing similar obligations on organisations as is required for disability, whether or not the person is undergoing medical treatment. To explain what a protected characteristic is they'll give the example of disability, race, sexual orientation, religion but never mention sex.

*Respect the person’s rights and privacy.
Reassure the person that you will support them and ask how you can support them. Don’t be afraid to ask questions. *

There will be a bog hoo-ha about respecting privacy and not talking to anyone else about that person being trans-identified but they'll follow that up with a directive that you must acknowledge the person's trans identity directly and positively to them. Our NHS guidelines are similar. After going on for paragraphs about privacy and respect they then have a line directing the clinicians to make a positive affirmation to the patient about their trans-identified status so they know they are supported as they are not mind readers. I seem to remember something similar in the anti-bullying the guidelines to school pupils. Respect privacy, don't ask questions that the trans-identified person doesn't want to hear but at the same time, make sure the girls fawn-over the TIM or they will be acting in a hateful way.

notafish Mon 04-Dec-17 09:11:33

big not bog

hipsterfun Mon 04-Dec-17 09:40:43

But two-year-olds don’t know they’re born. Like, really!

AstraiaLiberty Mon 04-Dec-17 10:10:41

Diagnosing a 2-year-old with anything gender-related is abusive. Oh look, this tiny child hasn't been correctly or sufficiently socialised into enacting regressive gender stereotypes, let's pathologise them.

And the binder thing - just replace it with 'tightlacing corset' and see if it's still progressive for teenage girls to impair their breathing because they want to change the shape of their bodies.

If I had read this ten years ago in a dystopian feminist novel I'd have thought it was a bit too far-fetched. Peak trans keeps peaking.

hipsterfun Mon 04-Dec-17 10:40:33

...a mother who defied NHS rules and took her child abroad to be castrated...

Can anyone explain - or point me to an explanation of - how she got away with this without challenge?

DamnItall Mon 04-Dec-17 11:21:55

What @ZooeyAndFranny said x 10000

SchnooSchnoo Mon 04-Dec-17 11:23:09

There is literally nothing a two-year-old could do to make me question their ‘gender identity’. I don’t understand this at all! How can anyone with half a brain cell believe this bollocks?

birdbandit Mon 04-Dec-17 11:42:55

I wouldn't trust any organisation, whether it be the scouts or a school, with the welfare of my children, if they are this demonstrably lacking in critical thinking skills. If they are so easily influenced by child abusers.

Binding/assignment of gender rules to toddlers etc? Who have they got running help desk, Jimmy Savilles apprentice? Oh wait....

Mrsfrumble Mon 04-Dec-17 12:31:36

How are the two statements on tent sharing not directly contradictory? How can you reconcile a preference for sharing with others of one's "true gender" with a competing preference for sharing with one's "biological sex"?

Am I missing something here?

TheCountessofFitzdotterel Mon 04-Dec-17 12:40:14

The phrase 'true gender' makes me rage. It is a religious belief, that the organisation appears to have adopted with no consultation or discussion.

Scabbersley Mon 04-Dec-17 12:44:14

If using the accessible/disabled toilet is the young person’s preferred option, refer to and label toilets appropriately (e.g. ‘unisex/accessible toilets’ rather than ‘disabled’)

huh? So what about disabled people? How come trans people are allowed to just take over their loos confused

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