95 percent Jekyll, 5 percent Hyde...to leave or not?

[Houserabbit]

I’ve nc for this.
If my partner was an overbearing man on a daily basis this would be so much easier...most of the time, his most obvious character trait is how quiet and shy he is. He has had long bouts of social anxiety throughout his life (He also has ED which he told me started in his 20s...he’s late 30s now) and most people would think he was a gentle person. He is gentle at home too and we get on very well on a day to day basis...if it wasn’t for his actions during his Mr Hyde periods...which I find hard to forgive, I would go as far as to say we will well suited....he doesn’t control what I do or who I see in any way, doesn’t dictate what I wear or my interests. I don’t walk on egg shells on a daily basis. To the outside world he appears like the ideal partner and most of the time, he is.

However, he has (or had) a dark side. I know this isn’t unusual in abusers ...I know most of them don’t waltz about in tee-shirts with ‘abuser’ on the front, swigging stella and swinging blows...but my problem is the abusive actions are so rare...and his split personality is so unevenly balanced, with ‘normal’ and ‘nice’ forming so much of his make-up that my head is screwed.

A few years back he behaved quite badly when drunk in front of his long-term friends and exposed his nasty side...possibly for the first time ever in front of them. He is normally very quiet but had had stress at work and was also feeling aggrieved that his friends were on high salaries while his, while over the national average and perfectly respectable, wasn’t comparable. When someone mentioned their own high wage he just blew up...basically saying they didn’t deserve what they were paid and making a scene. He later told he me wasn’t jealous...just that the fact everyone else found career progression easy and he didn’t, frustrating...and he was also steaming drunk. I believed this outburst was a one off because his friends have known him 20 years and all remarked this was the first incidence of anything like this. I don’t think the outburst came from a place of spite more feelings of in adequacy. However, seeing this, on the spur of the moment I told him I wanted to leave him partly because when he stomped out after his outburst his friends also told me about him cheating on his ex-wife. When we met he told me he was divorced due to an affair...I didn’t quiz him on this, he volunteered it and while he told me he was to blame, I hadn’t realised quite how much he had disrespected his wife ...basically he’d told me that the affair was a one off over a few months and he’d never done anything like that before. His friends told me however, that he’d cheated on her with two people. It wasn’t this that made me want to leave him but disgust I suppose, that he’d sounded so believable when he’d told me how much of a saint he’s been in the marriage apart from the affair...I hadn’t probed...it wasn’t a situation where he’d been forced to lie. When everything had calmed down I began to appreciate how his anxiety and frustration led to him being so nasty to his friend...not great, but a first time offence in a life-time of being placid and given how drunk he was..these things do happen I suppose. However, instead of feeling mortified and apologising to his friends the next day as most people would...once I’d told him I was leaving him, he decided to use me as cannon fodder. In his anxious mind, under the impression I was leaving he now had no girlfriend and possibly no friends either (this wouldn’t have been the case, they would have forgiven and forgotten...but his anxious paranoia and hungover brain didn’t see it that way) so he decided to invent a story about me to divert attention from his outburst. Basically informing his friend I’d badmouthed them...I hadn’t...in fact I’d told him off for being nasty to them...but he thought that I was leaving and these people would never see me again. I didn’t find out for months and when I did, it seemed to me the most bizarre thing I’d ever heard of...and childish...like a toddler caught with chocolate around his mouth denying eating any and pointing his finger at the innocent child next to saying ‘she did it’. He is an exceptionally childlike person but not normally in a way that hurts other people.


Anyway, when I got upset about finding out about what he’d done I admit I called him a coward...I said he’d behaved like a pre-teen girl and demanded he correct his lies. Which he did...sort of. He later said this caused him ‘stress’ . So much stress that a few weeks later, after drinking again he physically attacked me...I know being drunk is absolutely no excuse but I only mention it because he no longer drinks`to excess and hasn’t for a couple of years). It was a very serious assault and it was only through luck that I didn’t die. A stronger person would have left then but I didn’t....I can make all the excuses under the sun, that I was far away from all my family and friends, had financial worries, that he gaslighted me as did his parents, that I thought I’d be blamed because I’d ‘nagged’ him, the shock (I had a head injury) and while all these are true, the fact I stayed is my fault..no one else’s. I do think ether was some trauma bonding for sure...but he didn’t lock me up and force me to stay. I made that decision and I know it’s not a commendable one.

I think I was in shock for a couple of years. After the assault I started having problems with sleep until I was only getting a few hours...gradually I became like a zombie. I wandered around in this state for a few years until I got proper counselling and was diagnosed with ptsd. During this time he has ‘grown up’ he says he knows he has treated me and his ex wife badly. That he is not that person anymore..he no longer drinks to give himself confidence in social situations ...he mostly behaves like the perfect human being and I believe he has changed.

But I suppose it’s like trying to forgive an affair...the resentment (not surprisingly) can linger long after the event. My therapist and the friends I have now think I should leave now I’ve woken up to what happened but it’s hard...he has these two sides to him and the one that is ‘current’ is the nice side...I find it hard to get my head straight re my feelings for someone who is only abusive once every few years. I almost wish he was abusive more often as I would have left long ago. I’m not sure what I’m asking for really...maybe just a handhold. I should also mention, we have no children and sorry..I hadn’t realised I’d written so much.

[LachlanRose]

Well. Leaving him is the easy thing to say, but it's not the easy thing to do.... Or you would have done it.

First of all I am so sorry he assaulted you and betrayed you by making up lies about you. These aren't actions of a life partner and the impact in your mental health sounds extremely difficult.

You say he has cut down in drinking but not stopped? What else has he done? Has he pursued his own help? His own counselling?

I completely understand the idea that you want more proof that he is awful enough to leave .... But you have more than enough. He assaulted you enough to give you a head injury! This wasn't an accident, drink or no drink. I feel so bad that this led to your not sleeping and feeling like a zombie. That was your body , and your mind, telling you that something is really, really wrong. You need to start listening to yourself. Because ignoring your own pain never leads to anything good.

[rumred]

Dear op he's a horrible man who can act as if he isn't most of the time.
You sound ground down and quite rightly distressed and scared. He has caused you physical,mental and emotional damage. He has no right to do any of this. You have done nothing to deserve this, regardless of the few issues you mention.

Can you confide in a friend and plan your escape? I think discretion and care will be essential with such a dangerous, angry man.

More people will be on here to help you soon. Please listen to them.

Sending you strength and love

[TheNavigator]

I almost wish he was abusive more often as I would have left long ago. Oh he has really done a number on you. You are finding reasons not to leave, because you don't want to. You remind me of my mum. I don't know what to say to you, I could never persuade my mum to leave. She would be like you - 'if he did this it would be easy; if he did that I would'. You want to avoid agency because taking control of your own life is hard, so it is easier to find reasons not to. Obviously you should leave. But only you can actually do it.

[lilybetsy]

I am so sorry you are in this position BUT reading this 'It was only luck that I didnt die' that's enough. You can never get over that (well I couldn't) It would only take one more 'snap' and you could be dead. .. no coming back from that

I would walk out the door today, go anywhere, anywhere safe. Fuck everything else you NEED to get away

[SmileyClare]

Perhaps try to view it like this; he was capable of almost killing you and there is no guarantee he won't do it again.

An anology might be a docile, companionable pet dog who suddenly viciously attacked a you. That dog would be put down because there is a perhaps small but dangerous risk they will attack again.
Not saying your dh should be put down obviously.

[Houserabbit]

@SmileyClare

Perhaps try to view it like this; he was capable of almost killing you and there is no guarantee he won't do it again.

An anology might be a docile, companionable pet dog who suddenly viciously attacked a you. That dog would be put down because there is a perhaps small but dangerous risk they will attack again.
Not saying your dh should be put down obviously.

It’s this exactly...and because he is so quiet and shy and because of his usual demeanour I feel like I’m being cruel to a puppy..but yes he could bite again. I think also, if he were really so sweet and his actions purely due to stress, he wouldn’t have abused his wife by cheating ...so it can’t just be my actions that ‘made’ him act badly.
The difficulty is, because some years have passed, I do wonder if he might have finally changed. It’s true he is gentle, that we hardly argue but nonetheless, I actually feel the gas-lighting and victim blaming were as much to blame for my ptsd as the physical assault itself...he could have prevented aspect of my suffering by fessing up to his parents about what he’d done (he said he pushed me in an argument and I fell and hit my head which isn’t true) Meaning I had to stand there and listen to them say things like ‘these things happen’. He could have admitted to his friends that he’d been a twit and lied because he felt silly and wanted to divert attention...instead of the waffle he apparently came out with which was that he was ‘muddled’. Him lying about me before played a part in my not reporting the assault...he’d bad-mouthed me so badly, I felt he’d blackened my name and that no one would believe me.

[Pangwin]

Look, it's only a matter of time before something stresses him out, or he gets drunk again. People like him aren't going to change. It's who he is and it's how he deals with things when he's upset/stressed/angry. And the fact that he does this so sporadically means that he could flip out without any warning, so you can't even do anything to protect yourself by removing yourself from the situation when you see the warning signs.

It's also worrying that you mention two incidents- one verbally attacking a friend, one assaulting you to the point of almost costing you your life. This is a huge acceleration. It isn't a drip drip slow build up from verbal insults to eventually leading to assault (or murder). With you he literally went from 0-100 in one incident. That would terrify me.

I wouldn't want to live with someone who had assaulted me so badly that I could have died. And I wouldn't want to live with someone who could switch his emotions so quickly and without warning. You say you don't live walking on eggshells day to day, but the fact that you are questioning being with him tells me otherwise. You may not feel like he controls you but you can't let the past go (rightly so) and deep down I am sure there is a wary side of you almost waiting for the next incident. The problem is that the next incident could kill you. Why stay with a man who is a proven threat to your life?

[Pangwin]

I don't know why it says "you may not honk he controls you", it should read "you may not feel like he is an immediate threat to you".

[Pangwin]

*think, not honk. Ffs 🙄

[SmileyClare]

I think you're starting to realise the gravity of his actions. I'm so sorry Op

He didn't serve time for this? It was GBH or attempted murder but has been completely minimised and swept under the carpet.

From my own experience, I've seen personalities like this before. It's rare, but the combination of deep insecurities and a huge ego and sense of entitlement is a very toxic combination in a man.

The man I know was a friend of my husband's. He was very insecure but also quite narcissistic so came across as quite charming, almost a people pleaser who would occasionally display a viscous side (when drunk).

He is in prison now for breaking into his ex's house and seriously assaulting her after subjecting her to a campaign of abuse because she broke up with him. Lots of people were shocked and said it was "out of character".

You will need a support network around you and a careful plan if you wish to separate from this man. I think you should also consider reporting the attack to the police.

[HollowTalk]

So he nearly killed you and lied to everyone, including you, about what happened? Is that right? Were the police involved?

[CatherinedeBourgh]

The question is are you willing to live the rest of your life never feeling safe again?

You don’t say whether you would ever want to have children, but if you would, would you put them in a situation where you know they might get killed?

I am generally much more prone to forgiving and understanding people change than the mumsnet average, but an attack like you describe is way over the line.

If nothing else, because you will always be unconsciously checking your behaviour to make sure you don’t trigger another one, and that is no way to live.

[Houserabbit]

I still can’t shift the idea that I was abusive for being angry when I found out he lied about me...I called him a coward, said he had no morals etc. He didn’t attack me during an argument but some days later...he said that it was due to stress caused by my ‘going on’ at him for a week or so after I found out about the lies. One half of my brain says I bullied a timid man by calling him out for his actions..the other half says I had every right to.

[Aerial2020]

OP you are being abused. He is an abuser.
He nearly killed you.

Please find some support and talk this through with a professional.
Non of this is not your fault. He chooses to behave this way. Nothing you do is making him or causing this. He chooses this.
You don't have to live with this.

[Pangwin]

Being timid doesn't give him a 'get out of jail free' card. You confronted him after you found out he lied about you. He has shown himself to be the sort of man who will lie to get his own way, and then will attack when caught out. You called him out on his dreadful behaviour. His response was to almost kill you.

Imagine a set of scales: one side is weighted by your actions (telling him he was a coward lacking in morals), the other side of weighted by his actions (he got excessively angry at a friend, then lied about you, then assaulted you so badly that you could have died). Is the scale of both your actions balanced?

[rosabug]

I think you have a more pernicious problem than you may initially think.

My ex, though very different from yours had a physiological structure that I think may be similar

There's (from what you say) a strong stream of very primitive emotions running deep within. These drives are childlike - resentful, angry, selfish. Then there is the social cork that keeps this stuff under wraps and inbetween the two functions exists a huge chasm. Like most men he has spent a lifetime ignoring and denying the emotional stuff and there is little cohesion between the 2. The hidden stuff is shameful and powerful. Can I ask if he has either a difficult relationship with his mother? or one where controlled surface behaviour is valued and emotion is frowned upon?

I'd like to say that perhaps being aware of some of this will help, but I don't think so - unless he can undergo deep therapy. Which given the type of man he seems to be will be a alien concept to him. It is the way he is made.

I was skeptical when I stared to read this. The emotional blowup at the party was horrible but sort of comprehensible. His friends telling you 'truths' about his past doesn't say much about his friends tbh. But the physical assault???

However I do see your dilemma about leaving. My advise: Tell him you have been thinking about the assault and your PTSD and that you would like him to undergo extensive therapy to get to the bottom of it and protect your relationship looking forwards.

The lying is also an issue. My ex (normally an incredible charming, polite well mannered man) turned out to be a horrible liar and when we broke up after 20 years all this horrible primitive stuff came out - like an angry 13 year old. It was quite shocking. I knew he was a man 'island' but never realised how much unreasonable childish anger he was sheltering. I think this is quite common with men - has a lot to do with maternal projection - unmet needs and expectations. My ex's mother wanted nothing more than him to be charming, funny, handsome and polite and to love her. Everything else had little value.

While we were splitting up and still talking my ex told me his mother had said to him that he was: "The son who had given her most joy" I said to my ex that that sounded like 'a demand and a trap' and he sadly agreed - he could never be free of her need for him to be a certain way. He lived in fear of disappointing her.

I would say if you don't confront this (with compassion and strength) this sleeping horror will emerge later.

[Alarae]

Oh OP.

Bottom line is, even if your words may have been hurtful he never should have retaliated physically.

You did not cause him to physically assault you, that was his choice. A natural response to nasty words (if you are triggered in any way) is to fire off nasty words back in self defence. A childish play of tit for tat.

He escalated when he went physical which was entirely his choice. Do not take the blame that he went there.

It's easy for an outsider to say to leave. You sound so downtrodden. Do you honestly want to live like that for the rest of your life?

There are many men out there that are not abusive. You need to believe you are worthy of one of those. One of the men that is 0% abusive. You are not only 'good enough' for 5% abusive. Any number higher than 0 is not worth your time.

[rosabug]

typo in second sentence!!!

psychological no physiological

[SmileyClare]

Yes you see he is now making excuses. His insecurities/egotistical traits mean he will never show remorse for wrong doings, he will genuinely believe he is the victim. He will excuse wrong doings by saying he is a victim of circumstance or another person's actions. He won't take responsibility, or admit blame. Like you say, a very child like mindset.

For that reason alone, leave because he will hurt you again.

[LachlanRose]

I believe you are in an abusive relationship and this predates the assault.

It is not uncommon for people in abusive relationships to respond by being abusive themselves. It does not make them abusers, it really doesn't. It's the situation that caused this. You snapped, most people would have. I'm sure I would have.

He is changing who you are. This is important to realise, you need to leave him.

[lalalalaloo]

Wow OP I thought this was going to be a light one about a he said she said.

He nearly killed you?

How about you try to think about it from another perspective, imagine he was the partner of your daughter, or a friend. What would you be saying to them?

[Windmillwhirl]

He could have killed you. What else do you need to consider?. He's also a compulsive liar and jealous of other people that have succeeded.

You need to leave.

[TheSecondMrsAshwell]

I am sitting here open mouthed at your post, OP. He lied to his friends about you to turn them against you, he assaulted you and it was pure luck that you didn't die. Then he lied to his parents about what happened and they said "these things happen" - bollocks do they.

There's the old proverb "in vino veritas" - in wine, there's truth. Well, that's the truth, Hyde is who he is. Jekyll keeps control and is the sweet, shy guy who is sweet and kind. But Hyde is underneath, rankling at the injustices of life - he hasn't got the job and pay he ought to have (and all the trappings of that), when he thought you were leaving him, he didn't have a girlfriend (and Hyde needs one to feel like a man). Dr Jekyll would have rationalised that relationships don't work and it happens. Mr Hyde punished you.

At the moment Dr Jekyll is keeping it mostly under control, but as a pp observed, Mr Hyde got out and went from 1 to 100 on you, assaulting you. With or without alcohol, he will become more and more Hyde until one day he does kill you.

Go. Go now. Block him on everything. If he badmouths you to your friends, ignore it. Get this man out of your life.

[Tootletum]

He sounds fucked up. That won't change. Leave, and take it seriously. He sounds quite dangerous.

[GlottalStrop]

Op abusers don't change.

Please give this a read if you haven't already:

www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.co.uk%2FWhy-Does-He-That-Controlling%2Fdp%2F0425191656&ved=2ahUKEwjoq_STuoHsAhUVi1wKHbBPApYQqa4BMAp6BAgIEAQ&usg=AOvVaw0HwfU_g_N1ydXBKW_CjiUu&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21