How the name of heaven can anyone support the Tories?(239 Posts)
I just don't get it. Unless you are a heartless multimillionaire - then it makes total sense of course.
I have to turn off Radio 4 when I hear Hague?Gove et al dribbling out their blatant lies/spin/venom especially early in the morning. How on earth can ANYONE not see them for what they are?
Well I support most of the Torie/Coalition policies.
On the economy, deficit reduction is a necessary evil. Obviously unpopular but carrying on regardless was not a realistic option. Of course I can hear the cries of "We didn't cause it, wah wah, it's all the bankers fault...wah wah!" but the bottom line is that we are where we are.
Labour also support the deficit reduction just at a slightly slower pace. Not that they can quantify where they'd make those cuts and seem to be happy to oppose every cut.
On pensions, I totally agree and thankful that someone has finally decided to tackle this. However, I suspect this is more a matter of convenient timing rather than a outright Tory policy. I suspect again, Labour would have done it too. This is a mathematical issue, not politics. Again, i hear the mistaken cries of "Wah wah, it's all the bankers fault" when in reality it's a simple fact that more people are living longer so its simple maths that you need to pay more in.
What I don't support is their policy on higher education, their policies on charging for use of CSA/CMEC, the (cough) "war" in Libya and international development fund. Oh and I'm agnostic about their NHS changes. But hey, I live in the real world and accept I don't always get my way. The bottom line though is now we have to live within our means.
But on balance, right now the Tories are the only sensible choice. Lib Dems shot themselves in both feet and put their neck in the noose with the tuition fees fiasco. They'll be lucky if Nick Clegg keeps his seat, let alone the backbenchers.
Labour....well when they can muster up a set of actual policies then we can look at if they are serious or not. Right now they are opposing everything without actually saying what they would do differently. And how can you take anyone seriously when all they can do is say "ooooh I wouldn't do that....."
Each year we borrow more than £140 billion pounds
We need to spend less
I do not like the "welfare economics" set up by Labour - too many people can and do take advantage. You make enough people reliant on your handouts, they will feel they NEED to vote for you. Hence we ended up with a hodgepodge coalition, cos no one knows who the heck to vote for to get ourselves out of a bad situation.
I also believe we need to sort out our borrowing. We can always default on our loans and then not be able to pay the public sector at all..... let alone just reform pensions. Glad the daft child tax credits for over £40,000 have gone! And yes I got them.... Paying people who have money, when in debt and borrowing more to do it just seems daft to me.
Do the people control the economy or does the economy control the people? Once you're committed to neoliberal free markets and the politics that go with them, you will ultimately end up with acabinet of 21 millionaires telling disabled people various versions of 'the country can't afford it'.
"acabinet of 21 millionaires telling disabled people various versions of 'the country can't afford it'."
Even if that is true (and I can't be bothered to check if all of them are millionaires) it doesn't mean they are wrong. It is entirely plausible (and I believe true) that the previous government spent way too much money or the bankers did it (take your pick) and now we really can't afford it.
And if push came to shove, I'd much rather a group of successful millionaires who've earned their money themselves ran the country than your average man in the pub who doesn't know the difference between a deficit and a surplus.
Not being able to afford things we would like to as a nation is crap. Labour dealt with it by just finding the money no matter what: borrowing even in boom times and using the money for often very worthwhile things but storing up a whole set of problems by ignoring the fact that we couldnt really afford to do this long term.
Tories represent the alternative - only spending what we can afford to spend and therefore sometimes going without or cutting very worthwhile things (as well as cutting some waste - there is no doubt some past spending was ridiculously frivolous).
Both are pretty valid view points in a way so I dont see why people find it so hard to believe that millions and millions of people voted for the Tory option especially when the Labour answer to the crisis was (and still is) very vague eg they admitted in the run up to the General Election that cuts on a vast, vast scale were needed but cannot really say what they want cutting. Their opposition consists of objecting to all cuts and also objecting to tax rises but not actually stating where they think all these additional billions in savings should come from. This lack of direction put off many of their traditional voters and floating voters.
I support the Tories and was just about to add my comments but Niceguy2 has done a far better job of it
I obviously "can't see them for what they are" because I support them and I was a (state school) teacher before I was a SAHM and am married to another (state school) teacher. Loads of reasons why I like them. Just I can't be ar**d to go through them all again as some already covered on here.
Labour are no better atm. Just less obviously posh and privileged. Miliband in so much fear of Murdoch that he won't support the strikers atm. Pathetic.
Those who know that the deficit is not only the individual bankers' fault but due to the creation of an entirely unaffordable global housing debt bubble, need not believe that the lowest-paid in society should have to pay it off.
A huge number of people have obtained incredible wealth from said debt-bubble and they should be taxed a great deal more in order to recover some of this for the country which made them the money. I don't think you need to be a raving leftie to believe that the poorest should come first and the richest, who are already fine thanks, last.
I think that the Tory faith in 'market knows best' is unutterable bollocks, especially given what had happened to said markets before they were elected. And blaming Brown alone for all that is sheer simplistic nonsense. He wasn't running Ireland and Iceland too.
The point about the country somehow being 'safer' with a bunch of millionaires is also crap. These people have been privileged for life and money makes money. I don't think most are self-made. Those unpaid internships were paid for by Daddy. These men have not had to deal with the struggles of the 'hardworking families' they bang on about and that makes them unfit to govern.
But who to replace them with, is the question? It's a question of least worst option. Before the coalition I might have said the Lib Dems. Oh how wrong can one be....!!
nb niceguy glad to see a Tory who disagrees with their higher ed policy. It'll be the schools next being 'restructured' so as to sell them off to the highest bidder.
This is my real problem with today's Tories: a lack of common humanity combined with a lack of common good sense. Say what you like about Thatcher but she was a good politician. This lot (Willetts, Maude, Gove et al) look idiotic in comparison.
I agree with everything allegrageller apart from the last bit about voting for Lib dems... even before the last election I didn't like the cut of their jib.
just for the record...
at the point of the last election -
debt per household relating to defecit = £33k
debt relating to banking bail out = £400
debt relating to unfunded public pension defecit = £33k
the public may still make money out of the shareholding in banks...
most of the banking bailout has been repaid. the other things haven't.
headfairy, it was because I just never got over Tony Bliar and the war. And Brown backing it. And the whole neoliberal New Labour thing...the money they wasted on PFI etc- the sheer lack of foresight of it all.
I was only considering the LDs cos they were second in our constituency. I voted Green in the end.
Eggy could you explain please- so £400 for the bank bailout and the other 90 odd percent of deficit all attributable to public sector pensions??
That sounds too much like a Tory wet dream to be true. Could you link to the source pls? I'm genuinely interested as I haven't seen an actual deficit breakdown yet.
no the pension efecit is an additional 33k - thoug it usually doesn't appear on the general defecit as it isn't the same as a 'loan' that has been borrowed, even thoguh it is still money to be found.
Yeah, I think the war caused a lot of rethinking allegiances.. I just thought Nick Clegg was spineless and bland. Turned out he was even worse than that - two faced.
I completely agree that people need to work longer and I accept that people need to pay more into their pension. They should not, however, get less back.
And governments always find money for the things they want to fund. And all governments choose what they want to cut, based on their political views. Hence not batting an eyelid at the war in Libya and overseas aid.
They may not be making popular decisions but they are doing it for a reason. We will end up bankrupt if they don't do it.
Tories all the way for me.
Unpopular cutbacks but essential to get country back on its feet
because labour spent too much and were not hard enough on the greedy bankers or the work shy
as as for this assertion that Tory's are toffs well look what we have here
Labour even have an old Etonian (Mark Fisher). Here's the list:
Ed Balls (Morley and Outwood)
Hugh Bayley (City of York)
Hilary Benn (Leeds Central)
Bob Blizzard (Waveney)
Chris Bryant (Rhondda)
Stephen Byers (North Tyneside)
Charles Clarke (Norwich South)
Ann Clwyd (Cynon Valley)
Jim Cousins (Newcastle-upon-Tyne Central)
Alistair Darling (Edinburgh South West)
Quentin Davies (Grantham and Stamford)
Louise Ellman (Liverpool Riverside)
Natascha Engel (North East Derbyshire)
Mark Fisher (Stoke-on-Trent Central)
Barry Gardiner (Brent North)
Linda Gilroy (Plymouth Sutton)
Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East)
Peter Hain (Neath)
Patrick Hall (Bedford and Kempston)
Fabian Hamilton (Leeds North East)
Harriet Harman (Camberwell and Peckham)
John Healey (Wentworth)
Margaret Hodge (Barking)
Geoff Hoon (Ashfield)
Lindsay Hoyle (Chorley)
Tessa Jowell (Dulwich and West Norwood)
Sally Keeble (Northampton North)
Ruth Kelly (Bolton West)
Jim Knight (South Dorset)
Ivan Lewis (South Bury)
Martin Linton (Battersea)
Ian Lucas (Wrexham)
Denis MacShane (Rotherham)
Fiona Mactaggart (Slough)
Judy Mallaber (Amber Valley)
John Mann (Bassetlaw)
Rob Marris (Wolverhampton South West)
Gordon Marsden (Blackpool South)
Bob Marshall-Andrews (Medway)
Michael Meacher (Oldham West and Royton)
Chris Mole (Ipswich)
Julie Morgan (Cardiff North)
Doug Naysmith (Bristol North West)
Nick Palmer (Broxtowe)
Gordon Prentice (Pendle)
James Purnell (Stalybridge and Hyde)
Nick Raynsford (Greenwich and Woolwich)
Geoffrey Robinson (Coventry North West)
Andrew Slaughter (Ealing, Acton and Shepherd's Bush)
John Spellar (Warley)
Phyllis Starkey (Milton Keynes South West)
Howard Stoate (Dartford)
Gavin Strang (Edinburgh East)
Mark Todd (South Derbyshire)
Kitty Ussher (Burnley)
Keith Vaz (Leicester East)
Malcolm Wicks (Croydon North)
Michael Wills (Swindon North)
Rosie Winterton (Doncaster Central)
Shaun Woodward (St Helens South)
some have left but some have joined which will probably will bump the number up i am sure their are a few million/billion airs here to no less mr your fired SUGER
almost forgot Gorden brown who went to the most exclusive private school in Scotland
I think there must, statistically, be many, many, many thousands of Mumsnetters who support the Tories but there's just not much point in posting on these boards about it. There's always general tone of shrill Metro-Left to MN.
Gordon Brown didn't go to private school. I think you mean Tony Blair.
Labour has a quaint tradition of valuing people wherever they come from - not being prejudiced against people who went to posh schools. Unlike the Tories who treat minor public schools with disdain, let alone state schools. The current cabinet is not only composed of ex-public schoolboys but boys from the handful of the very 'best' public schools. It's all Eton and Westminster. 23 people in the cabinet, and IIRC, only two women (plus one who 'attends cabinet' without being a full member). And I think only two state school alumni.
You are right that New Labour were far too concerned about winning the favour of the City, the markets and the rich, though. That was their biggest failing. Trying too hard to say 'look, we aren't scary socialists, we love rich people'.
I think MN is very South East and Tory!
Maybe I have a chip on my shoulder. I've lived all my life in a very safe tory seat. Most of the people I meet on a daily basis must vote for them. Strangely very few admit to doing so.
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