A Brexiters chat with a German on a Portuguese beach.

[themueslicamel]

Just got back from Portugal and when there was on s beach where I left my shoes on s rock, s nice German chap brought them over and asked me where I was from (London) and how I voted in the referendum.

I was honest and told him I backed leave and we had an interesting conversation.

I told him my reasons for doings so, pro Europe, anti EU and confirmed I was for immigration, just having controls over who we let in and in what number.

I said we should and will take our share of refugees however I did not like the way the EU was going with the EU army on the horizon and feels we should look to trading freely with the rest of the world too.

He said many Germans feel let down as they need us as an economic powerhouse to pay in and we should close the borders with Africa and send all of the migrants back.

Some of his views seemed to be along the lines of what is often thrown against brexiters, and I appreciate it was a lone view but closing borders and sending people back seemed at least to him to be the way forward.

Not sure where I am going with this, just thought it may be of interest on this forum and provide an alternate (albeit limited) prospective.

[anonymice]

All my German family would back Dexit. The issue is complicated. They would I am sure agree totally with him.

[anonymice]

Not sure what open borders we have with Africa though ? Or Germany for that matter....

[themueslicamel]

He spoke of a ring of steel to turn back migrants, and was quite animated re the threat is islam.

I told him that as an atheist, I would just ditch religion altogether which he didn't like either!

[alltouchedout]

closing borders and sending people back seemed at least to him to be the way forward

There will, sadly, be people like him everywhere. No one has ever said these awful opinions are exclusive to the UK.

[anonymice]

That's how my relatives view it. They do not like Turkish immigration. They live in a village with hardly anyone of Turkish origin in it at all. There are Eurosceptic all across the EU just as there are here. Referendumsare banned in Germany.

[PickingOakum]

I had an interesting conversation with an Italian in Greece on the subject of Brexit just before the referendum.

He too was very negative about the EU, and said that the British were lucky to be in the position where they could leave. He didn't feel that Italy could from an economic perspective because of their membership of the EMU.

It was interesting to hear him say that he couldn't think of one positive thing that EU membership had done for Italy. It hadn't protected them from the forces of globalisation or political corruption, nor liberated them from the legacy of old, fascist era constructive regulations on the labour market and economy (such as highly regulated journalism licenses that essentially prevented the expansion of tech and digital media). It had made the cost of living extremely high.

But moreover, it was the involvement of non-italians in the economic policy of Italy due to the EMU and Italian debt load that really bothered him, that Italians had not voted for these people and couldn't get rid of them, and were being forced to swallow policies imposed by foreign representatives of EMU structures.

I've also heard similar negative sentiments about the EU from Slovenes, Czechs, Poles, Greeks and the Spanish and Swedish. Interestingly, it's always people that are more middle-aged that have concerns.

I think the notion that "EU exitism" is a peculiarly British phenomenon is somewhat of a myth. As is the idea that "EU exiters" are parochial fools that want to go back to the 50s. Some of the people I've heard express concerns are multi-lingual alternative types who spent their youths travelling around Europe and are firmly on the overall cultural left.

[AquaAquaAqua]

I'm currently in France. I've only discussed it with half a dozen French people, but they have all said they think we are doing the best thing for the UK, but they are worried what will happen now. They all want out of the EU too, but won't be given the opportunity. They are partly hopeful it will bring about a big change in the EU, but also worried that change might not be what they want. Despite the media trying to convince us other wise, I get the feeling there's more envy than resentment.

[themueslicamel]

I suppose these comments have galvanised my reason for starting the thread, I am all to aware that those who voted leave are not very popular on this topic, however I wanted to come away from the tub thumping name calling look at the views from inside the EU member states citizens.

[anonymice]

The reasons people voted leave and remain are expressed by various people in every EU country. This is no different definitely. FWIW though my relatives politics is pretty hard right. Not left wing at all.

[mummmy2017]

If you were in AIBU the we're going to have to leave Brexit thread, you would see how much being a person who voted to leave makes them say I am thick stupid and all sorts of other things.

We went on holiday the week the results came in and people had no idea we would leave.

[DoNotBringLulu]

You would have a different conversation if you'd met some Irish people....nobody wants a hard border with NI

[alltouchedout]

you would see how much being a person who voted to leave makes them say I am thick stupid and all sorts of other things

Mummmy, that is not an accurate description of why you're being criticised on that thread.

[GhostofFrankGrimes]

Haven't we been here before with the socalled Brexit domino effect? European elections since the referendum certainly ended that hope.

European support for EU surges in wake of Brexit vote

www.ft.com/content/78b4ded6-51ce-11e7-bfb8-997009366969

[Valentine2]

I strongly believe that if we had a vote iday, UK will vote Remain with a strong majority.
It is too complicated an issue to discuss on beaches. It should have been discussed in our world leading universities (who voted Remain unanimously:Cambridge, Warwick, London....) and and in Parliament. Not to be decided by public who has no idea of the complications, no qualifications to discuss the ins and out (if googling could count, we would all have PHD degrees in various disciplines, many people will have multiple PhD and postdocs too). parliament is where it should have taken place. Not in streets and pubs.
mummy
The reason you are being thrashed at that thread is not what you are trying to write here. Please don't mislead people.

[Valentine2]

Don't know why I typed PHD.sorry for the typos

[themueslicamel]

I haven't meet a single person who would vote differently either way.

What is clear is people voted how they voted for many varied reasons, and to brand either camp as (insert insult here) is a sweeping generalisation.

[ShoesHaveSouls]

We've just come back from Bulgaria.

There were a lot of EU flags hung there, and huge ones at the airport we flew to too. As an ardent remainer, it made me so sad - as a country they were clearly so proud to be part of the EU - and we've just thrown that away. So bloody stupid of us.

[Valentine2]

I haven't meet a single person who would vote differently either way.What is clear is people voted how they voted for many varied reasons, and to brand either camp as (insert insult here) is a sweeping generalisation.
Is that aimed at me? Saying our world leading universities with their world leading minds voted Remain is NOT equal to saying you are some illiterate fool? Don't try to put words in my mouth.

[Figmentofmyimagination]

Valentine is right. Worth revisiting this Guardian long read, published after the ref, exploring British and European identity and 'euro scepticism' and why Atlee was right to describe referenda as the stuff of demagogues.
www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/21/brexit-euroscepticism-history

[GhostofFrankGrimes]

When Brexiteers talk about Euroscepticism in other countries i often think they are trying to validate their own decision. Unfortunately, Brexit Britain is looking like a sad and lonely place.

[Motheroffourdragons]

I live in Belgium. Everybody I've met here thinks voting for Brexit was a ridiculous idea. It's all anecdotal, finding one German on a Portuguese beach who agrees with Brexit doesn't make it right.

[borntobequiet]

I spoke at length to a number of EU nationals - German, French, Dutch, Spanish, Portuguese - when on holiday in Morocco in the Autumn and Portugal in January. Without exception they expressed dismay and bafflement about Brexit. So did the Moroccans, who thought it was madness.

[twofingerstoEverything]

If you were in AIBU the we're going to have to leave Brexit thread, you would see how much being a person who voted to leave makes them say I am thick stupid and all sorts of other things.
If you announce your high IQ and membership of MENSA on a thread and back it up with the most inane statements, rather than critical arguments, some people will probably take the piss out of you.

[themueslicamel]

Valentine2

No it isn't aimed at you.

This isn't intended to be another mud slinging thread.

I merely thought the conversation may have been of interest.

The German chap wasn't for brexit either.

[twofingerstoEverything]

Good for you OP. I work in academia with people from all over the world who have unanimously expressed their amazement that the UK voted for Brexit. Many of them are preparing to leave the UK, or are currently working out their notice to the end of the current academic year. A Dutch professor that I've worked with for the past nine years said he and his family now felt most unwelcome and have experienced direct xenophobia. He is now leaving for America. He is an expert in his field and a great loss to our university. I'm sure a German on the beach's opinion is worth a million academic opnions, though...

I'm currently in France. I've only discussed it with half a dozen French people, but they have all said they think we are doing the best thing for the UK, but they are worried what will happen now. They all want out of the EU too, but won't be given the opportunity. Well, they had their chance to vote for Le Pen, didn't they? Clearly, there's not much appetite for Frexit, is there?