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AIBU?

..to think Stonewall should not be involved with schools?

999 replies

ConcernedMum100 · 04/02/2021 14:02

AIBU to think Stonewall should not be involved with schools...

Historically, Stonewall has done amazing work and led the way for equality. However, over recent years their priority seems to be a different sort of activism, which has caused many of their original supporters to abandon them.

I want to stress that I am very much in favour of primary schools teaching about diversity and different types of families including same sex parents, etc. I believe that's very important. I do however have reservations with Stonewall for various reasons, as follows:

-Its school resources with regards to transgenderism and gender identity, such as An Introduction to Supporting LGBT children, breach the Department of Education’s guidelines in many ways, including the sexist and regressive suggestion that children enjoying clothes or toys typically associated with the opposite sex is a sign they may be transgender. The resources also say that children are given a label at birth (they mean their sex is recorded) and that sometimes this label will have been wrong. They are not referring to the tiny percentage of babies born with a DSD, but children whose gender identity is supposedly different to their sex. Whatever that means. The resources also say that a school should not tell the child’s parents about their gender identity if the child does not want them to. Which means they’re suggesting schools change a child’s name and pronouns without informing the parents. Seeing as they communicate that children with gender dysphoria are often vulnerable and even suicidal, this seems very irresponsible.

-Its stance on child safeguarding. Stonewall have been very clear that they disagree with the High Court’s ruling which concluded that children under the age of 16 are highly unlikely to be able to consent to puberty blockers. They are in favour of medicating children as young as 10 years old, who are experiencing gender dysphoria and say they want to live as the opposite sex. This follows research showing puberty blockers do not have a positive effect on the children’s mental health, but do cause issues with brain development and bone density. Nearly 100% of children who have taken puberty blockers go on to take cross sex hormones which will likely lead to loss of sexual function and infertility. There has been an alarming increase in children identifying as trans over the last few years and the reasons for this is unknown, and there has been no research to understand the apparent strong link between autism and gender dysphoria, nor homosexuality and gender dysphoria.

-Its stance on women’s single sex spaces. Via both Tweeting and their school resources, Stonewall have made clear they believe women and girls do not have the right to single sex spaces at time when they may be vulnerable, because they believe males who identify as women (the prerequisite of which is to declare themselves a woman-no need for any medical treatment or diagnosis) should be treated as females in every aspect of life. This means access to women’s communal changing rooms, prisons, hospital wards, toilets, and rape shelters, to name a few examples.

-Its stance on women’s sports. Stonewall disagreed with World Rugby’s decision to prevent transwomen competing in women’s rugby. This decision was reached by World Rugby because they found that to include TW in the women’s teams would be unfair and unsafe (in increased risk to the women on the team by at least 20-30%) Stonewall appear to believe (and say) that inclusion comes above all else, even the safety of women and girls and their right to fair competition.

I don’t feel comfortable that an organisation with these highly controversial and political viewpoints has access to primary school children, whether it’s via face to face sessions, training school staff, or learning resources.

Of course Stonewall are not the only organisation which has these worrying beliefs. However, they are the biggest and most well funded. They are also listed on the Department of Educations “experts” page, despite breaching its own guidelines, which I think is wrong and also makes it very difficult for parents to complain to schools.

What are your thoughts?

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Am I being unreasonable?

1351 votes. Final results.

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AStudyinPink · 04/02/2021 14:07

I don’t want Stonewall anywhere near my child’s education. I will teach them about the evils of prejudice myself. Science denying zealots can piss all the way off.

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JoodyBlue · 04/02/2021 14:11

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JaimeLeeCurtains · 04/02/2021 14:14

Stonewall has lost the plot IMO. Misrepresenting the Equality Act is one hell of a low move for a once proud civil rights organisation.

Shame.

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Vermeil · 04/02/2021 14:15

Stonewall have found that current fashionable gender issues are the Flying Scotsman of gravy trains. I find it all a cynical drive for power, relevance, and above all, money.

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Hannah1329 · 04/02/2021 14:24

These are all very valid concerns. Stonewall should not be anywhere near schools. It is an extremely powerful organisation driven by a political ideology rather than scientific facts or evidence. It will cause damage to children (already is) in my opinion.

Those with similar concerns can write to their MPs, Councillors, Regional School Commissioners and also the RHSE team within the DofE to request they stop promoting Stonewall to schools.

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MarshaBradyo · 04/02/2021 14:26

I agree I do not want their influence over education in schools

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pumpkinbump · 04/02/2021 14:34

Stonewall are now a disgusting, homophobic organisation. They need to be ripped apart.

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VickyEadieofThigh · 04/02/2021 14:40

Absolutely agree with you. Stonewall have spent a lot of funding - all from government grants and well-meaning people's donations - capturing a massive range of organisations to further an extremely dubious set of principles.

Their work in schools is extremely worrying to me as an education professional with a lot of experience in safeguarding.

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peak2021 · 04/02/2021 14:43

Their historically good work does not mean that they should now continue given their current policies.

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Whatwouldscullydo · 04/02/2021 14:52

Yanbu

Stonewall have redefined homosexuality ( check out their glossary if terms on the website if you don't believe me) as attracted to same gender. Not same sex. Under Sex they state that sex and gender are used interchangeably however their definition of gender makes it clear they are 2 different things.

Its harmful and homophobic.

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BaggoMcoys · 04/02/2021 14:53

I wrote to my dd's school to question their intention of getting involved with stonewall. I pointed out some concerns and the fact that several founding members have criticised the direction Stonewall has taken these last few years. That was quite a few months ago now but I never did hear back from the school on it. Understandably I suppose they've had bigger covid related fish to fry. I haven't chased it as I've not heard any more regarding their plans to carry out Stonewall training since their initial email. I'm hoping it's quietly shelved.

Anyway, I agree with you. They're a lobby group and extremely questionable and I feel they have no place getting involved with schools at present.

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NiceLegsShameAboutTheFace · 04/02/2021 14:53

I don't think Stonewall should be involved with anything or anybody!

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ConcernedMum100 · 04/02/2021 14:54

@Whatwouldscullydo

Yanbu

Stonewall have redefined homosexuality ( check out their glossary if terms on the website if you don't believe me) as attracted to same gender. Not same sex. Under Sex they state that sex and gender are used interchangeably however their definition of gender makes it clear they are 2 different things.

Its harmful and homophobic.

Yes that's a very good point a forgot to mention in my initial post. Totally agree.
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unmarkedbythat · 04/02/2021 14:55
Biscuit
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ConcernedMum100 · 04/02/2021 14:55

@BaggoMcoys

I wrote to my dd's school to question their intention of getting involved with stonewall. I pointed out some concerns and the fact that several founding members have criticised the direction Stonewall has taken these last few years. That was quite a few months ago now but I never did hear back from the school on it. Understandably I suppose they've had bigger covid related fish to fry. I haven't chased it as I've not heard any more regarding their plans to carry out Stonewall training since their initial email. I'm hoping it's quietly shelved.

Anyway, I agree with you. They're a lobby group and extremely questionable and I feel they have no place getting involved with schools at present.

Once things are more back to "normal" I would definitely write to them again to make sure, and your MP!
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brunetteonthebus · 04/02/2021 14:58

Stonewall will not be involved in my child's education, I will remove them from those lessons if the school bring them in (I don't think they are planning to at the moment).

I want my children to leave about diversity, inclusivity, tolerance, acceptance of differences, kindness, all different sorts of family set ups. I am happy to teach them that, and will. But I will not have some political (and worse!) agenda forced down their throats. No thanks.

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jeaux90 · 04/02/2021 15:03

They tried to lobby government to remove single sex spaces
They have tried to redefine what it means to be gay
They have no place in schools
They have no place in politics
They no longer represent the groups they were set up to lobby on behalf of.

Stonewall are a shitshow of their former selves

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jeaux90 · 04/02/2021 15:05

This is what they lobbied for. The removal of single sex spaces

..to think Stonewall should not be involved with schools?
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ConcernedMum100 · 04/02/2021 15:06

@jeaux90

They tried to lobby government to remove single sex spaces
They have tried to redefine what it means to be gay
They have no place in schools
They have no place in politics
They no longer represent the groups they were set up to lobby on behalf of.

Stonewall are a shitshow of their former selves

Yes. Agree with all of this.
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ConcernedMum100 · 04/02/2021 15:06

@brunetteonthebus

Stonewall will not be involved in my child's education, I will remove them from those lessons if the school bring them in (I don't think they are planning to at the moment).

I want my children to leave about diversity, inclusivity, tolerance, acceptance of differences, kindness, all different sorts of family set ups. I am happy to teach them that, and will. But I will not have some political (and worse!) agenda forced down their throats. No thanks.

I feel exactly the same.
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Whatwouldscullydo · 04/02/2021 15:06

Their definition of intersex is troubling too.

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rogdmum · 04/02/2021 15:08

Can I go on a slight tangent and speak for Scottish mums and say I don’t think our equivalent LGBT Youth Scotland should be in our schools either? OP, I’m honestly not trying to hijack here but if anyone wants to see exactly what sort of messages teachers are getting from organisations like Stonewall, there’s a recent transcript of LGBTYS teacher training here: forwomen.scot/13/12/2020/george-watsons-college-staff-transgender-training/

The first half is fairly dull, but read the Q&As where parents who wish to be cautious and not automatically affirm their child as the opposite sex are described as unsupportive and teachers told to revert to legal names in front of parents as it’s not “safe” to use preferred names.

My daughter’s school follows the LGBTYS guidance (which I imagine is similar, if not identical to Sronewall’s). This led to us being told when she was 14 that we had no say in her being transitioned to a boy at school despite 2 mental health experts saying it is not appropriate for her.

These organisations are incredibly dangerous and pit children’s wishes against their parents’ concerns. There is no mention of professional opinion, only what the child wants, whether or not that is detrimental to their mental health.

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Oblahdeeoblahdoe · 04/02/2021 15:09

Schools have a statutory duty to inform parents 8f their RSE policy and any outside speakers or resources they are using. Demand to know and make your feelings known.

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ConcernedMum100 · 04/02/2021 15:12

@rogdmum

Can I go on a slight tangent and speak for Scottish mums and say I don’t think our equivalent LGBT Youth Scotland should be in our schools either? OP, I’m honestly not trying to hijack here but if anyone wants to see exactly what sort of messages teachers are getting from organisations like Stonewall, there’s a recent transcript of LGBTYS teacher training here: forwomen.scot/13/12/2020/george-watsons-college-staff-transgender-training/

The first half is fairly dull, but read the Q&As where parents who wish to be cautious and not automatically affirm their child as the opposite sex are described as unsupportive and teachers told to revert to legal names in front of parents as it’s not “safe” to use preferred names.

My daughter’s school follows the LGBTYS guidance (which I imagine is similar, if not identical to Sronewall’s). This led to us being told when she was 14 that we had no say in her being transitioned to a boy at school despite 2 mental health experts saying it is not appropriate for her.

These organisations are incredibly dangerous and pit children’s wishes against their parents’ concerns. There is no mention of professional opinion, only what the child wants, whether or not that is detrimental to their mental health.

Not hijacking at all - go for it, it's important.
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HouseOfGoldandBones · 04/02/2021 15:16

Absolutely not.
No political group should be involved in children's education. ESPECIALLY when they are giving guidance which breaches DoE's guidance.

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