To be baffled as to why women accept this?

[Atticusblame]

I went out for drinks with my friend last night. Her partner has just moved into her flat. I asked how it was going and she said he was very messy and didn't do any housework. She's now given him specific jobs which are his.

She said 'he is tidying up tonight too. He's just asked me to write a list of what needs doing and he said he'll get it done.'

I said nothing, but thought to myself why the fuck do so many women accept this, and actually think it's helpful? Why do they think men cannot see what needs doing as well as they do? Can't they see that it is just so the man gets away with not having to think about anything domestic?

It infuriates me is much. AIBU to think that women shouldn't accept that a man needs a list of housework?

[managedmis]

I have no idea. I really don't.

Because it's easier if you do it for them?

Because they don't give that much of a shit?

[Atticusblame]

How can it be easier to do it for them? They're grown men. Surely they can look around and see what needs doing without a woman having to take the lead?

[Katiegeorgia1979]

Hey there! I feel ya. My ex husband didn’t lift a finger, and the fact that he’s now EX says it all. I just wanted to let you know that I started a new job a month ago and the chairwoman is in the process of drip feeding me her tasks so she can think of retirement. I said to her, “give me a list of what you want me to do, and by when, and I’ll do it”. I wanted to ensure she was totally happy with my performance and that there were no grey areas with my responsibilities. I guess your guy is doing the same. He’s probably feeling unsure as to how to make you happy and by asking you to spell out what you want doing, he’s trying to ensure your happiness. Trust me girl you got a good un there! Xx

[Majorcollywobble]

YANBU
This seems to be an ongoing debate and many women have just given up before devising a list or rota . Hopefully this guy will soon be hardwired into housework just as women appear to be expected to be .

[Katiegeorgia1979]

Just re read it. Sorry, I was leaping ahead with my thoughts. Your friend got a decent guy. The workings of the mind of significant others (same sex or different sex) is always a mystery and being given a list is just making a grey area much more defined. As long as the end result is the same - ie tidy house and happy occupants - who cares if someone needs a nudge? X

[megletthesecond]

Yanbu.
It shouldn't take many days of living somewhere to realise what needs doing.

If I was dumped in a strangers house it wouldn't take me long to figure out what needs doing. And my standards aren't even that high.

[SunshineAngel]

The thing is, I think some people (NOT always men, and certainly not all men) don't think things need doing as early as others do. For example for me, I have to wash the dishes as soon as there are more than a couple, but for him he would happily leave them a couple of days. I couldn't do that. Same with hoovering, I think it needs to be done more often, so it might look like I do more, but it's only because I think it needs doing before he does.

If I ask him to do something, he will do it, no questions asked - and he's always told me that he will.

I don't think it takes too long to write a list of what needs to be done, and if they're happy working from a list then why not? Some people just need more direction than others with regards to what needs doing in the house.

You can "accept" it or not, it's up to you, but I think it's a petty thing to get so wound up about when the person in question is obviously willing to help, if only they're told what to do. In fact I'd say it was great, because they're obviously trying to fit in with your ideals, putting in the effort, when they don't even think half the things need doing!

[madcatladyforever]

I wouldnt stand for it.

[AlexaAmbidextra]

Trust me girl you got a good un there! Xx

Really? Depends where you set the bar I suppose. Sounds to me like she’s got a manchild.

[dontgobaconmyheart]

couldn't agree more OP, nobody ever seems to get it in real life though.

[NailsNeedDoing]

Yabu to be infuriated about something that has nothing to do with you. If your friend doesn't mind the way her partner is, then why do you?

[randomchap]

I think it depends on the relationship. My late wife suffered from anxiety, she liked things to be done as her way otherwise she'd struggle. When we first moved in, I'd just do the housework that I thought needed doing the most, this was not always the same work that she would prioritise.

If she got home and I'd done X when she'd thought Y was more important would cause her anxiety to kick off. We decided that she'd prioritise what needed to be done, and I'd just do my share. This helped with her anxiety but in mumsnet terms I'd probably be labelled a manchild as I had a list of tasks to be done.

As long as the couple is happy with their routine then it really shouldn't matter to anyone else.

[RueCambon]

Yanbu. I would rather have a tidy house.

[sweetkitty]

My MIL did everything for DH he wasn’t allowed to touch the hoover “you’ll only break it, I’ll be faster” she ironed everything the minute it was out the washing machine and hung it up to dry. She sorted out his car insurance etc. He didn’t have a clue when he moved in with me. Couldn’t cook himself anything either.

He soon learned though, he irons all his own clothes, makes dinner probably more than me and does as much housework. No way could I have had 4 children with some man-child.

I remember MIL being all shocked at him changing a nappy. I think it’s a generational thing that some men (and women) are happy to continue with.

[CalmFizz]

Because we have a biological ticking clock and the game of love is basically supermarket sweep. Once you’ve grabbed your oversized banana you better run to the checkout quick sharp.

Find out it’s rotten later.

[Sarcelle]

My DH was brought up like a prince. His poor sister was not treated like a princess. He should be totally hopeless but in all honesty he is better at housework than me. I have a day off and I suit myself. He has a day off, he cleans the kitchen, hoovers, does a bit of DIY. He used to iron king sized duvet covers until I told him not to!

[Wineiscooling]

I think everyone is different and what one person sees as acceptable others don't. I'm not the tidiest of people and can see my standards are different to other people's. It doesn't bother me if I'm all relaxed after dinner and the kitchen is a tip, I'll do it in the morning but I know many can't sleep knowing there's dishes in the sink.
My husband is even worse than me, I genuinely think he has a brain that doesn't see muck or mess. He'll happily get along with jobs if I tell him to but if I don't I think the house would be a tip before he noticed. I don't think it's a cop out, I don't think he's lazy or a really bad husband for it, he has lots of good husband points! No one is perfect and I suppose it's what you look for in a husband. I do get frustrated with his untidiness but I don't think it's a case of being a weak woman for "accepting" it, I think there may be a lot of things in other people's partners that I may be less willing to accept that they do. Each to their own! So long as we're happy, let's not worry about other people's untidy husband's

[penmanship]

YANBU, I could not be in a relationship like your friend. It’s also depressing seeing talk on this thread of how she’s lucky because he actually wants to “help”, the bar is set low for some women.

To those posters talking about how it’s easy to write a list and so what if he needs a bit of direction. It’s about the mental load - it’s about women being bogged by carrying the huge task of having to think of fucking everything and make sure it happens - the shopping, the washing, the cooking, the cleaning, all the family admin - and even if their partner is “helping”, they’re still having to project manage the whole bloody thing. It’s exhausting and it holds women back. @Wearywithteens sums it up perfectly in their post.

[EBearhug]

If it's the first time or so, then I'd be okay with a list. (I like a good list.) But I'd be clear this was a one off and he was expected to learn, because the management of a house is not just for ladybrains. TBH, I would expect this process to happen before moving in together - if I know someone well enough to consider sharing my entire life with them, them that includes knowing whether their attitude and abilities towards housework (and finances) is not too dissimilar to mine.

[VisibleShantiLine]

@CalmFizz Because we have a biological ticking clock and the game of love is basically supermarket sweep. Once you’ve grabbed your oversized banana you better run to the checkout quick sharp.

Find out it’s rotten later.

That’s excellent. And true.

[Applesanbananas]

Yanbu I think women like that are just as pathetic as the useless man.

[VenusTiger]

Interestingly, how do you know whether or not your friend is a tidy freak and her partner has asked for a list because there isn’t any mess.
Do you know who is BU here or are you just taking her word for it?

[TwiddleMuff]

YANBU.

"To those posters talking about how it’s easy to write a list and so what if he needs a bit of direction. It’s about the mental load - it’s about women being bogged by carrying the huge task of having to think of fucking everything and make sure it happens - the shopping, the washing, the cooking, the cleaning, all the family admin - and even if their partner is “helping”, they’re still having to project manage the whole bloody thing. It’s exhausting and it holds women back."

YES. YANBU OP, and I am thankful I ended up with a DH who doesn't need micro managing to engage in the most basic tasks.

[Mintjulia]

Different people have different standards.

My ex insisted on shoes being paired up and stood in rows, but it wouldn’t occur to him to hoover the carpet they were set out on. He refused to clean anything, changed about 4 nappies ever and thought cleaning should be done by the cleaner (or me), Just not him. He wouldn’t get his hands dirty. Partly why he’s an ex.

My ds, 11, knows to put his laundry in the basket, how to use the washing machine & the hoover, and to make his bed. I refuse to produce a slovenly man.