Page 2 | To think this 'no sex baby' thing is ridiculous!?

(131 Posts)
Tippitoesandbuttonnose Mon 03-Jul-17 18:53:54

I'm posting this as over the past 24 hours I've seen a post on here about someone thinking babies should not be assigned a gender and should wait till they're older and then just seen a news article where a couple have had 'unknown sex' on their babies birth cert!

AIBU to think it's ridiculous to try and make out like your child has no sex? Obviously they do. Gender IMO is different and as they go older by all means let them identify as the male female whatever but it's silly to not assign a sex when they obviously have a penis or vagina?

The reason I think this most is girls will be told about periods etc because it is what they will experience because they are female! So they're gonna know at some point right? Argh!

I know this isn't the most PC post but AIBU?confusedhmm

OP’s posts: |
AssassinatedBeauty Mon 03-Jul-17 19:55:38

"Gender identity" to me is a way of expressing dissatisfaction with the stereotyped gender roles that are often forced on us by our society and culture. It's not innate, it's a reaction to outside expectations. I'd rather there was no such thing as gender identity and no expectations of people based on their sex. Then we could all just be people with personalities who also happen to be male or female.

Whatsername17 Mon 03-Jul-17 20:01:37

I can't imagine how hard it must be to feel you have been born into the wrong body and make the difficult decision to transition just so that you feel 'normal'. This is not the same thing. This is a fruitcake parent trying to 'stick it to the multi sexed establishment' and being just so controversial and free thinking. I bet the parent is also a breatharian who has a degree in blue sky thinking.

Tippitoesandbuttonnose Mon 03-Jul-17 20:04:30

I wouldn't ever go near the s*n.

OP’s posts: |
AssassinatedBeauty Mon 03-Jul-17 20:31:41

Sorry it was a google, I'm sure you can find the same story from another news outlet. Hang on a sec and I will do so for you.

AssassinatedBeauty Mon 03-Jul-17 20:33:16


shinyshiner Mon 03-Jul-17 20:42:22

Message withdrawn at poster's request.


viques Mon 03-Jul-17 20:56:45

Shiny shiner, that made me smile too. So much so that I have decided that I will no longer feel forced to use letters that I have been forced by oppressive conventions that restrict my right to be ME a unique, special and wonderful being, to use since birth. From hence forth I ref¥se to ¥se the letter ¥ and will instead ¥se this c¥te little symbol I fo¥nd on my iPad.

I will continue¥e to do so until I am bored with it when I will find something else with which to express my amazing wonderf¥less.

VestalVirgin Mon 03-Jul-17 21:12:48

I thought this was going to be about the immaculate conception!

Me, too! Well, that, or artificial insemination / IVF. grin

I actually think it's abusive, particularly for girls. It's utterly unfair to raise your daughter in a world like this and not prepare her for what she will face as a woman.Ignorance of being female does not cure you of being opressed as a female.

Very good point.

I'm all for protecting girls from patriarchal brainwashing, even if that makes them a bit less "functional" in that shitty world, (because they might then not like to perform femininity) but one should at least inform them about what to expect.

(I would totally dress a baby daughter in "boy" clothes so that random strangers don't gender stereotype her, but I would also tell her that she is a girl and people are just silly.)

apostropheuse Mon 03-Jul-17 21:21:16

The Immaculate Conception doesn't refer to a virgin birth. It refers to Mary being born without the stain of original sin.

(Very common misconception)

Just saying... carry on! halo

INeedANameChange Mon 03-Jul-17 21:24:09

The mother is batshit and it's fucking ridiculous.

I did love her quote about how It was assumed she was female and she didnt follow those gender assumptions in adult life....

Yet she had a fucking baby hmm

VestalVirgin Mon 03-Jul-17 21:27:03

The Immaculate Conception doesn't refer to a virgin birth. It refers to Mary being born without the stain of original sin.

Damn, I confuse that every time. I should really make more of an effort to learn - after all, it makes about as much sense as trans ideology. (There are many parallels. For example, while there might be historical records of Mary still having an intact hymen while pregnant, how the fuck do we know she didn't have the stain of original sin? Can you see that stain or something? It is about as invisible as gender identity, isn't it?)

WanderingTrolley1 Mon 03-Jul-17 21:28:02

Sheer lunacy.

VestalVirgin Mon 03-Jul-17 21:31:03

Yet she had a fucking baby

One really wonders what the fuck she thinks "female" means.

But hey, Bruce Jenner also fathered children before deciding that he didn't really feel male.

Transactivists like to use intersex people to claim that biological sex is not binary, but when it comes to people like those mentioned above, there's really not a fucking doubt in the world about their actual sex.

UterusUterusGhali Mon 03-Jul-17 21:33:38

1 in 1500-2000 babies are born intersex. (Sketchy source. I believed it to be higher tbh. You can't always tell if a neonate is intersex and have to wait until puberty.)

If you remember the rates of hearing loss (unilateral and bilateral) in the U.K. Are 1-2/1000 you can see it's a fairly common condition.

We put too much emphasis on children's genetalia.

shinyshiner Mon 03-Jul-17 22:30:57

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

VestalVirgin Mon 03-Jul-17 22:38:05

We put too much emphasis on children's genetalia

Sex is not just about the genitals. It is about the whole body. "Male is default" thinking harms women. See heart attacks.

Intersex babies are not harmed by their intersex status being observed (and yes, I think there should be a category for intersex).
And in fact, if the mother was exposed to certain chemicals during pregnancy, then the damage done can show in the genitals.

Just saying "Eh, whatever" and not recording sex at birth would be quite dangerous.
So no, I don't think we put too much emphasis on babies' sex. Not in a medical context.

Oh, and then there's the fact that without recording the sex at birth, you won't notice when the birth rate is skewed, and you won't notice that there's a lack of women in the general population, and will be totally surprised when all your young men complain they can't find a girlfriend.

"Whoopsie, well, we aborted penis-less babies, but that's okay, just get a bepenised girlfriend, then! What do you mean, you don't want that?"

WineAndTiramisu Mon 03-Jul-17 22:45:39

VestalVirgin - what do you mean by "see heart attacks"?

MyPatronusIsAUnicorn Mon 03-Jul-17 22:46:27

YANBU. This has gone too far and it's just fucking lunacy.

Vagina = female
Penis = male

It's that bloody simple unless there is a rare case of intersex and it's not clear what genitals the baby has.

iismum Mon 03-Jul-17 23:02:26

VestalVirgin - what do you mean by "see heart attacks"?

This is referring to the fact that male and female heart attacks present very differently and have very different symptoms. But because we live in a male-dominated world, the medical community focussed much more on the male and the well-publicised symptoms that we all know (stabbing pains, etc.) are actually for male heart attacks and don't help women. Thus women are much less likely to recognise that they're having a heart attack and therefore less likely to survive them.

This happens all the time - e.g., the symptoms for autism were developed exclusively from observing boys but it presents differently in girls - hence the assumption until recently that girls only rarely have autism, because the diagnostic tests weren't designed to identify girls. Also crash test dummies are generally designed on the male body so cars are less safe for women. And likely many more that no one has noticed yet.

iismum Mon 03-Jul-17 23:03:08

So in other words if you don't know what sex someone is, you can't properly diagnose all sorts of things.

UterusUterusGhali Tue 04-Jul-17 02:46:08

Children are very much harmed by their intersex status. :/

Vereesa Tue 04-Jul-17 03:04:54

I am not sure why in this day and age some people still fail to comprehend that sex is not the same as gender.

Fruitypebbles Tue 04-Jul-17 04:29:56

I'm non binary and pretty much consider myself genderless - I'm the person everybody hates and calls a special snowflake even though I'm just trying to live my life comfortably.

I don't think it's too ridiculous, but I also don't see the point - you can raise a gender neutral baby as the assigned gender at birth and just be open to them doing whatever they like and changing rather than forcing them into gender roles like 'oh little boys have to play football!' and 'little girls have to play dolls and wear pink!'. Just let them pick what they want to do (within reason, I wouldn't advise anybody let a 3 year old perform surgery or drive a monster truck) and support them in it.

Fruitypebbles Tue 04-Jul-17 04:31:11

Saying that (sorry for double post I thought of more things) I doubt the child will be raised without knowing of the health risks associated with their gender. You can't just ignore things like periods, after all, and they'll likely explain it all. Their health stuff is between them and their doctor and I'm sure their doctor will know their sex.

haveacupoftea Tue 04-Jul-17 04:56:44

Sex is and must continue to be observed at birth because babies do have different health needs depending on the sex of their baby. A female baby will not need a check to see if her testes have descended for example. And female growth measurements would always be a cause for concern if centiles weren't based on sex.

Arguing that sex needn't be taken into account is pointless. Most physical characteristics of babies aren't observed and recorded because it isn't relevant to their health if say they have hair or green eyes. But knowing the sex is vital to babies care and development.

Join the discussion

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

Join Mumsnet

Already have a Mumsnet account? Log in