To think this 'no sex baby' thing is ridiculous!?

[Tippitoesandbuttonnose]

I'm posting this as over the past 24 hours I've seen a post on here about someone thinking babies should not be assigned a gender and should wait till they're older and then just seen a news article where a couple have had 'unknown sex' on their babies birth cert!

AIBU to think it's ridiculous to try and make out like your child has no sex? Obviously they do. Gender IMO is different and as they go older by all means let them identify as the male female whatever but it's silly to not assign a sex when they obviously have a penis or vagina?

The reason I think this most is girls will be told about periods etc because it is what they will experience because they are female! So they're gonna know at some point right? Argh!

I know this isn't the most PC post but AIBU?

Gender identity" to me is a way of expressing dissatisfaction with the stereotyped gender roles that are often forced on us by our society and culture. It's not innate, it's a reaction to outside expectations. I'd rather there was no such thing as gender identity and no expectations of people based on their sex. Then we could all just be people with personalities who also happen to be male or female

^^This. Exactly this. Except that, let's pretend that the gender concept never existed. Sex does not equal gender. Except in very rare cases sex is indisputable and penis = boy and vagina = girl.

There are biological differences. People with vaginas are going to become a lot less successful in sporting events if people with penises declaring themselves as female becomes widespread.

I expect the NHS will cope swimmingly with getting the right people smear tested and called for mammograms if people chop and change being male and female .

Society does consider it more acceptable for little girls to play with trains than little boys to play with dolls so if the TRA lot want something to campaign about, something that is actually wrong, they want to put their energies into campaigning for changing societal expectations of the sexes not on 'well if he likes pink kittens he must be female' bollocks.

I think it's the most ridiculous bullshit I've ever read. Followed closely by the hilarious description of the families lawyer in the BBC article as 'barbara smith, who chooses not to use capital letters in her name,...'. I read it and felt I had a deeper understand of the type of people these are. Bat shit cray.

Yanbu. Utter nonsense.

¥anbu

I would dress a small baby in their sex or gender neuteral clothing. But if they wanted to wear different things, even as a toddler, I would be fine with that. My little boy is due in November, if he was little and wanted to wear an elsa dress to nursery that day, who am I to stop him? Its not doing any harm.

I also dont believe in gender specific toys, if I had a girl I would let her play football and cars. My little boy is going to have toy dolls and and a play kitchen. All kids should play with dolls and kitchens and stuff because it helps teach them to parent and look after a house on a small level, skills they can use their whole life. Its good for a child to be maternal and play baby with a doll, it teaches them to be kind and caring. At the same time, something like football or playing being a dinosaur is good for a childs gross and fine motor skills, reguardless of their gender. All play has benefits, and children on both sexes should be able to explore and access them.

As a baby, do what you want. But as soon as a child can talk and has a mind of their own (around 2 years old), let them express their personality how they want to.

Sadly, this situation will get worse before it gets better. I feel very sorry for the children involved.

Pile of twaddle! YANBU

AssasinatedBeauty

I agree. Everyones personality and way they act should be up to them and their own mind, not what society expects of them.

I have a friend who is a stay at home dad, while the mum brings home the bacon. They are amazing parents, just as fab, if not better than other "normal" parents I know.

I also know someone who is a female heavy weight boxer. She is cool and strong. Her "masculinity" is one of the best parts of her.

Truly inspiring, both of them.

YANBU. FFS. I can't wait for this bullshit to blow over. I thought we all believed in science now. Whatever next?

Quite apart from how ridiculous it is, it seems awfully impractical. For instance, the graphs you get in your red book are different for a boy or a girl, I'm presuming they have something similar in Canada. Do parents like these demand a Special Book with a Special Graph for their child's weight and height or do they just opt out of all that?
They couldn't go to baby clinic and put the child on the scales either, someone might see its mysterious genitalia!!

Utterly ridiculous and completely incomprehensible.

You can understand how nonsensical and illogical the whole thing is when the "self confessed non binary" person on this thread doesn't actually understand the difference between sex and gender. Poor Fruitypebbles has been suckered into an ideolouseand doesn't seem to know how to use words accurately.

"I'm non binary and pretty much consider myself genderless..."

So what am I, if i consider myself a biological woman who is also "genderless"? Genuine question.

*into an ideology
Apologies for phone blah.

"...you can raise a gender neutral baby as the assigned gender at birth and just be open to them doing whatever they like and changing rather than forcing them into gender roles like 'oh little boys have to play football!' and 'little girls have to play dolls and wear pink!'."

You're so close to peak trans, Fruity. Smell that mountain air and join us terfs at the summit. You know you want it.

Thank you for that post, iismum, I came on to mention exactly what you did, i.e. about the danger of male defaults in medical and other situations. I have an autistic daughter, and the diagnostic criterion here was pretty much limited to an old tick box questionnaire, based on observation of autistic boys. Took a while to get the diagnosis and help my daughter needed.

If you believe that gender is a thing (I don't) then that's fine, no problem. And we should all dress/ behave as we wish etc. but denying the existence of biological sex is fucking stupid.

I'm non binary and pretty much consider myself genderless - I'm the person everybody hates and calls a special snowflake even though I'm just trying to live my life comfortably.

If you are just trying to live your life comfortably, then why do you identify as non binary?

... oh, that's right, because being a gender critical radical feminist, who as you know also do not have (or at least not want, because gender is FORCED on women) a gender, you would get you burnt at the stake by the genderists.

I must admit, there is logic to it.

As a radical feminist, I must still say you look like a bit of a coward, but I can see why you'd do it.

(Unless you are male. If you are male, you are just an asshole. But most nonbinary identified people I've met were female. And reassuring males that it is totes okay that they oppress those lowly women, and that they should please not oppress you because you are totes not a woman, is the easy way.)

I disagree Vestal

What logic? That in order to escape patriarchy imposed sex-stereotypes, you abandon womanhood and thereby agree that womanhood is simpering femininity?

Fuck that. If you reject sex stereotypes then you need to campaign against the patriarchy, not fall in with it. Fuck that.

BTW unknown could also be a hermethidate as in born with sex organs of both and is normally difficult to determine what sex biologically they are more in line with til they are older and parents are sensibly waiting til it becomes clear before makibg permanent life changing decions

I agree it is cowardice but it is not logical. Nothing about it is logical.

Yanbu!

xx chromosome = female sex
xy chromosome = male sex

Simple innit?

Another issue is the statistically proven (but mysterious) fact that men in electrical trades are mire likely to father girls. What if something happened that affected the proportion of male to female babies?

Also participation rates in school. It is important to evaluate that. Given trans ideology is so intersectional, how would we measure girls' literacy in Nepal etc? Oh wait...

"I don't believe for a second that they were allowed to register their baby as "unknown sex". That didn't happen."
Strictly speaking, you're correct Floggingmolly. The ?Registrar? in British Columbia has yet to issue a birth certificate, as that must identofy the sex of the child. What has been issued is a health card, with sex 'U', which is presumably what they would do if a child was intersex? (I'm guessing here.)

So basically this child has no birth certificate because the parent refuses to identify the sex.

I've read variants of this story from various news media, and I have learned two things.

1. They all just cut&paste each other's work. The exact same phrasing, paragraphs etc. are present again and again.

1. None of them seem to be able to tell the difference in meaning between the words 'sex' and 'gender'. But then, neither do the parent or the lawyer.

What logic? That in order to escape patriarchy imposed sex-stereotypes, you abandon womanhood and thereby agree that womanhood is simpering femininity?

Yes. Sell out other women to save yourself. Or rather, have the illusion of saving yourself.

Is that not logical?

The whole genderbabble is illogical, but the motivations behind it are very clear.

I don't see it as logical because the concept of abandoning your comrades/sisters is incompatible with solidarity.

And given this is a "left" trend the whole thing is completely illogical.

It shows how neoliberalism has pervaded the parts of the left that lack critical thinking. It makes me fucking furious. These social jystice warriors and non binary women are destroying the left and selling third world women (who can't identify out of their oppression, and furthermore, opposing FGM is neocolonialism - Muslim women want halal lipstick apparently) up shit creek.

Fuck that.

I know a couple, not well just sort of friends of friends, and when their baby was born the sex wasn't clear. Doctors couldn't say if it was a boy or a girl. They found it really awkward as of course people do ask if your baby is a boy or girl. I think it was some time before it was eventually decided the baby was a girl and she had to have surgery.

I did feel it was difficult as bits were removed and I thought if the child grew up and decided they wanted to be a boy those bits were gone forever. Not sure how exactly that would work, or if the bits would have worked anyway, and couldn't ask parents as it wasn't something they were comfortable with talking about.

I'm still not sure how I would feel about putting a baby through surgery just to conform and I suppose if it has to be done then probably better psychologically to do it early.

It feels a bit insensitive for people to make an issue where there isn't one when some people face such a painful dilemma.

It feels a bit insensitive for people to make an issue where there isn't one when some people face such a painful dilemma

Completely insensitive. Munchausens by proxy anyone?