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For telling 11 year old dd she can't come with us to see Les Mis?

(213 Posts)
Picturesinthefirelight Sat 29-Dec-12 22:08:44

She turned 11 recently, still in primary school. Doesn't know about sex and stuff yet

From reading an American guide for parents website it seems the film shows fantine selling herself in a bit more detail (apparently it shows the man lowering her top, thrusting then leaving after paying)

Dd has friends at school who have been to see 12a films and indeed we have let her watch certain 12 dvd's (hairspray, Star Wars Harry potter etc)

Am I being a prude?

ZZZenAgain Mon 31-Dec-12 12:47:56

I see, thank you very much , that was very helpful.

Picturesinthefirelight Mon 31-Dec-12 10:44:35

When speaking or singing in "speech quality" your larynx is set up in a different way than when dinging in for example "opera quality". If you think about it it makes sense something has to be different to make the different sounds

We all have an " attractor" set up that feels most natural to us it doesn't mean that we can't learn to make changes to access a higher range or different vocal quality.

Picturesinthefirelight Mon 31-Dec-12 10:41:43

No it's fine to start lessons at 12. He prefers post 16 purely because he woks best with that age group (like done teachers work best with younger children) and he works in a very technical way with serious vocational students mostly (often dancers who are training full time)

The main thing in my mind is that some girls lose confidence at this age because these changes/ loss of range make them think they are rubbish. Some girls sail through it, others take longer.

ZZZenAgain Mon 31-Dec-12 04:03:50

also can anyone explain to me why you cannot talk about altos at this age? According to the article girls voices are either light or rich soprano but not alto. I don't understand this because from the very first words my toddler spoke even I could tell straight off her speaking voice was alto. So is a speaking voice alto but the singing voice different - rich soprano then presumably.

Obviously I know nothing about singing, can anyone explain it?

ZZZenAgain Mon 31-Dec-12 03:59:10

that is so interesting about the changes in female voices wrt puberty. Dd is 12 and has started singing lessons. I am wondering now if this is a bad time to do it after reading that link. What does your dh think about it OP? Does he prefer to wait till they are about 15 or 16?

snowtunesgirl Mon 31-Dec-12 00:31:28

Sunset is pretty good though as is By Jeeves but then the latter has a script by Ayckbourn.

Picturesinthefirelight Mon 31-Dec-12 00:26:25

Evita not a favourite. In fact I can take or leave most ALW.

snowtunesgirl Mon 31-Dec-12 00:16:47

ripsishere, not true. Evita says instead of sings: Yes, oh yes in reply to Peron's question are you on your own. <Dons geek hat>

And what did you expect? It's a throughsung musical. confused

BalthierBunansa Mon 31-Dec-12 00:03:39

ripsishere!? A 111.6 DD? How old are you? grin

trapclap Sun 30-Dec-12 23:55:53

grin FRESH

FreshLeticia Sun 30-Dec-12 23:53:32

Your DD is having a lucky escape, Les Mis is exactly what it says on the tin-fucking miserable. Take her to see a feelgood film FFS

ripsishere Sun 30-Dec-12 23:49:33

To go back to the original question.
I'll let you know what it's like. I've an 111.6 DD, we were going to see that yesterday, but didn't. Since it's the only thing showing at the cinema with easiest parking apart from Malay/Chinese films it is a no brainer.
I am not keen, I still remember the disappointment and confusion I felt when Evita didn't have a single word of spoken dialogue.
I think my DD would get a bit restless. It's very long.

Drywhiteplease Sun 30-Dec-12 23:25:22

erica grin sod the prostitution,death,poverty, violence portrayed in the film.......there is NO WAY I'd take my 11yr old to see a film that shows sausages made from CATS!!!grin........nuts!

Seriously though I had an interesting chat at dinner with my 14yr old son and just 12yr old daughter about Aids/HIV and was shocked that they hadn't been told about how it is transmitted in their sex ed classes. Put them straight and there followed a fascinating conversation where thy listed all sorts of STDs, and told me that condoms make great balloons too!!!

Sex chats with you children should be factual, matter of fact and a little bit humorous, it's your duty as a parent to educate them about life and really it's not that embarrassing.

Cathycomehome Sun 30-Dec-12 22:21:23

I think you should do what you think best in terms of the film; you know your daughter.

In terms of sex ed, I'd personally have a chat with her. Before secondary. My ds1 is 12, August 28th birthday so in year 8. He knows A LOT more than I expected since starting secondary, and he knew the "mechanics" by year 6. I also have a five month old, and he was quite "Oh God. Yuk" when he found out I was pregnant! grin

Picturesinthefirelight Sun 30-Dec-12 20:21:08

Yes I did. It was others who diverted the conversation.

I received done advice from those who have seen the film (as opposed to me reading guidance from an American parents film website) which was very useful and affirmed my original position by drawing my attention to other aspects of the film.

I started off wanting to be told iwbu (i enjoy taking dd to things) and it would go over her head. It seems not.

trapclap Sun 30-Dec-12 19:41:53

Don't know why OP didn't just start a thread in chat to discuss Les Mis/ musicals etc etc in general....she absolutely does not want to discuss whether it is suitable for her dd

snowtunesgirl Sun 30-Dec-12 19:22:55

OP, I think upthread you said you were going to talk to you DD a little bit later but didn't quantify it.

How long do you think you are going to be able to delay this and aren't you worried that someone is going to misinform her?

Greythorne Sun 30-Dec-12 19:18:10

One of the oddest MN threads ever.

OhlimpPricks Sun 30-Dec-12 19:11:35

some reading material here for those of you 'fascinated' by the changes by that puberty ay have on the voice of a young child.

Picturesinthefirelight Sun 30-Dec-12 19:08:01

Also you have to tembervtgatvehstvu day is just little bits I've picked up. There
May be bits where I have got the wrong end of the stick. Dh has studied intensively and the area is being researched further all the time.

snowtunesgirl Sun 30-Dec-12 19:03:29

OP, you're dodging here. Vocal change is NOT a sign of impending menarche.

Picturesinthefirelight Sun 30-Dec-12 18:58:56

It's relevant because girls going through puberty have to be careful. They often lose vocal range and develop a breathy quality. Breathiness can also be an indication the vocal folds arnt closing properly which can lead to damage. Then there is the issue of belting or not. In boys it's much more apparent and when a boys voice is breaking they are often more careful but the same things happen with girls

Of course he is much much more knowledgable than I am. At the moment he doesn't work with children much only post 16s. He works with students training for a career in Musical heatre.

snowtunesgirl Sun 30-Dec-12 18:56:37

OP, I know your DH is a vocal coach but with regards puberty and periods and voice change, that's a load of shit. I got my periods when I was 10 and my voice didn't change til I was 13. That's when I went from being a soprano to mezzo and then later on when it all levelled out I found out I was a mezzo with dramatic belt so I can reach Queen of the Night aria notes but it's not where I'm most comfortable.

And what no Parade?

OhlimpPricks Sun 30-Dec-12 18:54:44

Where has the OP said he discusses young girls periods with them? Some of you seem intent on pulling the OP to pieces.
A vocal coach who can predict or judge whether a youngsters voice is likely to imminently lower, or change ( as many do, both girls and boys, with puberty).
For instance, some of the children cast in Les Mis were chosen 6-9 months ahead of filming. If one of them were likely to have a change in their voice, then a re-think is needed.
For instance, Isabelle Allen who plays young Cosette, will not have her angelic voice for a lot longer. Her voice is pure and childlike now, but will change in adolescence, and as we all now, that can happen from as young as 7/8/9...

JessieMcJessie Sun 30-Dec-12 18:44:27

I love Oliver! Mary Poppins, My Fair Lady, Evita, Anything Goes, 42nd Street, Hello Dolly, anything with tap dancing in it ( tap dancing Klansmen in Jerry Springer the Opera was a highlight). I was very sceptical about Billy Elliot but it was fabulous. Agree Legally Blonde was terrific. Hate Phantom, Cats, Starlight Express, Sweeney Todd, was disappointed by Wicked after so much hype. Les Mis has always been in the meh middle ground for me tbh, I enjoyed the staging of it though, perhaps that's why the film didn't really do it for me.

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