If I get a 2nd job do I have to/should I tell my current employer?

[Eddas]

Title says it all really. I currently work 15 hours per week for my employer, split over 3 short days. I have been offered another job 8 hours per week which is a working from home job and will fit in where-ever it can.

Do I have to tell my current employer/Should I tell my current employer?

Depends on your contract - some employers say that you must inform them

As you are part time it is unlikely that there is a term in your contract requiring you to inform them/ get permission if you take another job in the hours you are not working for them. Full time employees often have such a term in their contracts because there is the risk that if they take on work which means they work more than a normal working week there may be issues of tiredness etc which could affect their job performance.

There is no such need for a part time employer to be informed. It is none of their business what you do outside the time you are contracted to work for them and tbh I doubt if they would be interested. I am sure there is no requirement/expectation that you should tell them.

I would not tell them voluntarily as what you do outside your hours for them is your business. I would not like to give any signal that they have a say in your non-working hours as it is often enough of a struggle to make sure a part time job stays part time and does not creep up to being on stand by/ being available to answer queries on a full time basis iyswim. I have had problems in the past with employers continually ringing me on my non working days with complicated queries - it is really annoying.

Have a look at your contract. It may well say you have to inform, or ask permission, or make it clear that if you take another job your 'primary job responsibility' is to your first employer (ie they could require you to work at the times they choose, and doing another job at those times would not be an excuse not to).

CMOT - having a term in a part time contract saying you are obliged to get permission to take on any other work would be an unreasonable term. It is unlikely therefore that anyone would put such a term in and it would probably be unenforceable if they did.

If the contract states the part time working hours it cannot require you to be on constant standby on a full time basis in case your employer might want you to work. That would mean you would have to have full time childcare even if you had no other job, or would you be expected to drag a baby along with you?

Thanks, I'll have a look at my contract when I get to work next week. I doubt it has anythng in it about being part-time as everyone apart from me is full-time(small employer) I don't think my boss'd have an issue with it other than it not interfering with my job, which it won't as my first job is priority(more pay, been there a long time and they've been very good to me)

I am kind of on call when not at work, but in practise they rarely contact me. I check my emails from home on my days off and they sometimes call about something. They don't ever ask me into work on specific days as it's not that kind of job and they know I'm not flexible(childcare on set days and I work school hours so they know I can't change)

The 2nd job doesn't start til sept. It's a lovely little job that I just can't turn down.

I can't see any reason to tell them. As they know you can't work for them on your days off now it makes no difference to them if you are at home with your kids or at another job. No point creating a problem by giving any hint that you think they have a right to veto what you do on your days off.

I have had people working for me part time who also had other jobs. I never considered it was any of my business what they did on the days they did not work for me and would never expect them to ask my permission to take another job on those days.

Sorry can't, but I actually disagree with you.

It can be just as relevant for a part time employee to have a clause in their contract requiring that they notify an employer of external jobs. Such a clause is not inherently unreasonable. My view is that it would be enforceable just as it would for a full timer.

It isn't just about tiredness, or about being 'on standby'. It's about other issues, depending on the role. It can be about potential conflicts of interest - working at two companies in the same industry, say. It can also be relevant if the employer has agreed part time hours because of a flexible working request. If you have agreed a flexible working request because someone wants to spend more time with their kids/fit childcare and you have accepted the inconvenience that that almost always causes (speaking as a big champion of part time, it does...), you deserve to know if your employee is using that time instead to work elsewhere.

OP- look at your contract. If it says you should get permission, get permission.

my gut instinct is to tell them, but I don't want them to say no!!

I'll tell you the jobs.

First job is accounts assistant in an accountancy firm.

Second job is pre-school administrator, so similar thing(involves accounts) but not at all in conflict with current job.

I can only see that they would object if I were trying to work within another accountancy firm on my days off, for fear of losing client's etc etc, but this is totally different.

The only thing they could possibly object to IMO is if it effects my job, but I can't see how it would as it's not set hours so I can fit it in whenever.

DS starts school next september(2011) so I will then have 2 days(school hours) free to do the job, which would be plenty of time. I was going to broach the subject of more hours next september but doubt my employer could give them to me. I was then going to ask about working else where part time. But this job has come up now and I think i'd be silly to let it go.

I will check my contract though, but I will probably tell my boss, well, ask I suppose, I get on well with my boss, he knows that we struggle financially so I think he'd be understanding and would know(I will make it clear) that it's really about money. I can't ask for more hours where I work yet as that would involve more childcare costs which I can't meet.

Thanks for all the advice I will post once i've read the contract.

oh and the part time hours weren't agreed re a flexible working request, When I went back to work after having dd(6 years ago) I asked to go back part time, 2 days a week, which I did until dd went to school where I changed to 3 short days, but the same hours as the 2 day week. But I do agree, if that were relevant then I should tell my employer as it would make the reason for flexible working invalid.

Yes I guess if there is a clause in the contract and you have signed it then you have to abide by it. For this type of business, though, I doubt if there would be. I never had such a clause in my contract when I worked full time for various accountancy firms.

Personally, I would never as a part-timer agree to sign a contract with a clause like that. But I have always been in a position to negotiate on things like that, others may not. I just would not like to set the precedent that my employer is in a position to dictate what I am allowed to do during the time I am not paid by him. If they want to do that they can pay me a full time salary!

Due to bitter experience I would not ask permission unless legally obliged to, even if employer seems "nice and reasonable" now. I had an employer who was nice as pie until it suited him to cr*p on me from a great height. I don't trust 'em as far as I can throw them now!

Just been reading this thread and wondered if both employers need to know of your other jobs because wouldnt tax and Ni have to be sorted out on the total amount earned?

not really. NI is calc'd per job, where as tax is cumulative over both. So for the firt job I would get tax'd and NI'd because the earnings are more than the lower limit. The 2nd job isn't many hours so no NI would be due. Tax would be deducted at basic rate, but if you want to split your tax code between the jobs HMRC should do it, but in my case it would be pointless as the 2nd job should all be taxed at basic rate.

I did think that maybe my employer would find out anyway if the personal allwance is increased as then I would be under the limit for both jobs(well nearly) and not need to pay tax so they should split my tax code, which would be sent to my employer so they would find out anyway.

Can't - I put those clauses in every contract, very surprised you haven't had one. I would personally be suspicious about an emeployee who refused to sign one (but at the same time, my clients are generally nice if you want to run a nappy business in your spare time or whatever)

Why Ribena? Is their time outside work not their own?

another random thought, at the moment I'm treasurer(volunteer) of the pre-school, which my boss knows and doesn't mind so apart from being paid I don't really see how it's different?

I'm thinking about this WAAAAY to much

I will just look at my contract

Eddas - they would not necssarily know you had another job just because of a change in your tax code. They are simply told the tax code to use, not the calculation behind it. Change in tax code could be for any number of reasons - having untaxed investment income etc.

true, but we're a firm of accountants so i'm sure they'd ask

I work part time and my contract has a clause saying I should notify of other jobs. My last job was part time too & had a similar clause but which also prohibited other employment that might give rise to conflicts of interest. Both employers would be/have been quite open to me doing many other jobs, but need to protect themselves from employees working for competitors etc. I am sure it is quite common for such clauses to be included in contracts whether part or full-time.

Can't- of course their time outside work is their own. But it's for all the reasons I described above and for the reasons snorkie said.

Eddas I used to do the admin for our local pre school. The 6 hours a week I was paid for in no way actaually represented the hours I did for them.
Have you spoken to the person who currently does their admin and asked them realistically how many hours it involves?

It didn't matter how organised I was there were always last minute changes required. It seriously encroached on my home life, affected the time I spent at home with my ds, interuppted housework, homework etc, not to mention taking over the house with files and paperwork. It seemed like easy money for a few hours but it was not.

Also, very importantly find out if you will be fielding calls from parents. This was the biggest drain on my time. I had parents phoning me at home at 7am asking if there was a space that day, and then others who would ring at 10pm at night to discuss increasing their child's hours etc. When I finally jacked it in the person who took over refused to have their home number given out and instead agreed to be at the preschool every day to take enquiries that way.

Seriously find out what you're getting into here before you go ahead and agree to it. If it is a fixed hour job (when you've done your hours you do no more or you get paid for extra hours (which you won't as pre school budgets are so tight)). Speak to the current admin person and ask for honest feedback.

Regarding your current job, I currently work part time for an accountancy firm. My contract (as does everyones) includes a clause saying I must get persmission for a job within a certain radius of my current office - no matter what that job is). It is about protecting their clients etc.

Incidentally you really need to look into the tax and NI stuff a lot more. We had a lady at pre school who took on a second job (which was more hours) and made pre school her second job. This caused a lot of financial burden to pre school as they then had to pay over the (employers) NI for her cummulative hours each month leaving them with cash flow issues. She had to swap over which was her primiary and secondary job in the end.
Pre schools mainly run without making any profit, their income largely goes on salary and most othr stuff (new toys, equipment etc) is financed through fund raising.

Sorry to throw a spanner in the works but thought you should know it's not necessarily plain sailing and that you might want to investigate a bit more.

Good luck
Gilly

Interesting discussion. For my clients I don't put in something saying 'permission' must be given for any other job, as my feeling is that is a bit over-prescriptive, unreasonable and likely to get people's backs up.

However I do always put something in that no activity that either is or could be in any way considered to be detrimental to the work of the employer can be undertaken. I usually put in quite a wide definition of 'detrimental', taking in all the problems mentioned above, and where there is any doubt, permission must be sought.

Flowery - that would be more reasonable. I would really object to having to go cap in hand for permission to do something in my spare time that could not affect them in any way. I have had employers who would refuse permission just because the contract says they could, not for any good reason. One employer refused to let me take on hour to go to DDs carol service and make time up next day. Really was no reason to refuse. Told me I had to take a whole day's holiday. Then refused to approve the holiday.

So you see, I am a bit wary of clauses like that in employment contracts. I would be annoyed if i was barred from increasing my income if I needed to because an employer decided to use a clause like this.

By cantcarryon Sat 15-May-10 18:10:02

"One employer refused to let me take on hour to go to DDs carol service and make time up next day."

That's a whole different debate though, isn't it? That's about how flexible the employer is about time off during working hours, whereas the OP's concern is about to what extent her employer can dictate/influence what she does outside of her working hours.

gillybean, thanks for your post. I understand what your saying. to answer your questions, the hours are 8 per week.I would tell them if this were not enough, I know pre-schools are on a tight budget, but ours is doing well at the moment so I would push for a change in hours if I should need to. I will speak properly to the current admin lady, but she is the unorganised type, finds things like this hard so i probably won't really know how long things take until I try. If I find it doesn't fit in I will just ask them to find someone else.

At the moment the admin lady has a pre-school mobile. We also have a website so I will need to answer emails. The manager also has a mobile which is on during pre-school hours so I imagine she would take calls about the current day.

At the moment the pre-school is full and parents should know that phoning for a space that day will not happen!! Also, increasing hours isn't an option on a weekly basis, only termly and currently the admin lady writes to see who will up sessions.

I'm qute certain of my facts regarding NI and tax, I deal with payroll in my job.

Incidently, I am aware of the pre-school profit/running costs situation as I am currently the treasurer.

I appreciate what you have said, but I like to think that I think things through quite well so I think I will be ok. and lets face it, if it doesn't work out I will just hand it over to someone else.

I will check my contract and will probably ask/tell my employer as I like to be honest. I can't see why there would be an issue and I really could use the money.

I will post next week once I have looked at the contract.

I am unlikely to mention it to my boss yet anyway as the job doesn't start until September.