Is a 4 day week really part time?

[Flumpwoman]

I'm due back to work in August and have requested going to 3 days with my manager. My role is a fairly senior one and she said that it couldn't be done in 3 days. She then went on to suggest a job share and even went as far as approaching a potential candidate to do the other half of the role. Unfortunately this person couldn't accept the role for personal reasons.
After jumping through several hoops and writing a long proposal, the company have now turned down the job share, citing that it won't suit the business. Instead they've offered me a four day week (with one of those days at home) I accept this does go some way to a part time role but it's a massive mental leap to take on all of the responsibilities of my old role in four days as well as to leave my baby with CM for four days instead of three. The old work/life balance swings firmly in favour of work. Plus I'm angry that the job share option got as far as it did before HR stepped in and deemed it unsuitable for the business.
I do want to continue my career which I enjoyed before falling pregnant and don't want to kick up a fuss but wonder if anyone has any other suggestions I can go back with to negotiate further.
Apologies for the long post I'd love to hear your thoughts.

I am in exactly the same boat Flumpwoman, ie going back in August, wanted to do 3 days was told the same etc...are you me? lol

I have decided that, having resigned that I will go back 4 days, I am going to try doing 5 school days a week. Although of course this wouldn't work with a long commute etc, in my case, with the working from home this would be a better compromise. It means that although the kids have to go to childcare every day, it will be only a short day for the younger two and no chilcare for the other two at school. 9 til 3 would be 6 hours a day, so a 30 hour week.

I hope this has given you another option to think about.....and good luck!!!!

A lot of employers think that is PT tbh. I was doing 2 days before second ML and happy to do 3 when i went back, however they can only offer me 4, so in effect have just been made redundant. Sucks really but not much you can do tbh as it sounds like they have jumped through the hoops they need to to say they gave it due consideration

On the upside for me, i have just applied for a job 1 day a week, which if i get it will do far more for my CV/long term career than staying with my old employer

Good luck, whatever you decide

I think that 4 days is not so bad as long as you manage to get them to formally confirm that 20% of your responsibilities will be passed to another person.

I would go ahead with it and start applying for other part time roles in the mean time. I wouldn't kick a fuss though, but perhaps re apply for the extra day at home six months down the line, when you can show them that you are able to organise your work and deliver, working part time. I guess by then, if they really value you as an employee, they may be prepared to compromise.

And probably I'm going to be flamed by this but I don't think that part time works for every organisation/company/individual. I worked in a place where we all were part timers/job sharers and it worked well as boss was very organised. But then boss left and her replacement was working only 4 days a week, unfortunately she wasn't as organised as previous boss or as efficient so all the department job was always late or hold back either because she wasn't there to take urgent decisions or because she insisted in ignoring time constraints so every problem was sorted in a first come first sorted basis. Within a year half of the staff had left... very stressful for us all.

So I understand about companies saying a part time position may not be suitable, obviously it would be if they make an extra effort, but when that effort may result in extra stress put on the rest of the staff... perhaps it's too much, some teams may not survive it and some companies may not be able to afford to modify the way they work to suit the needs of an individual.

I have been working 4 days for the last 3 years and i would not recommend it as you end up having a lot of responsibility and working on your day off for no pay. I would never choose 4 days again. 3 or 5 but i can only speak from my own experience.

What about 5 half days? Can it work that way?

Yes, I view a 4 day week as part time.
And would agree that it can be very hard to have a senior role covered by a p/t employee.
Do you have a DP / DH who could also work a 4 day week so that you can stick with the 3 days at CM?

I work 4 days and alot of my friends also do. We all have similarly senior positions and TBH I do not have any less responsibilities than I had before (in fact,I have more). I realised this beofre going back and basically had to 'suck it up' - unsurprisingly despite the same workload, I still get paid 20% less. It's hard and it's knackering but I wanted to be able to have a day at home and also be able to continue with my career progression. Luckily DH also works 4 days (different days) so DC only has 3 days child care. It very much depends on where you work and what your role is IMO. You also have to be very strict that your non-work day is non-work, which is dependent on you and your employer. I also think that you have to be flexible, so I sometimes swap my on and off days to fit around work but I accept that this is not always posisble for everybody.

I am fairly senior and agreed to work 5 half days. My manager is (fairly) happy as I am in every day to deal with any issues, and although it is a lot more travelling than working say three days, it is a nice compromise. Would your work consider that?

9 till 3 isn't 30 hrs a week though, you'd need a lunch break

Can you work longer hours on the 4 days and get paid for a 5 day job? Or a 9-day fortnight? Especially if you think you;d be working the extra day anyway, at least then you'd be being paid for it.

That's pretty popular at my work. It took me until 2 days before returning from mat leave to find a 3-day role though. It's actually better now everyone's budget is squeezed as obv a 3-day person in a senior role is better than not being able to afford a 5-day person and having no-one.

Yes it is definitely part time as you get a day extra off every week.

When I did a 3 day week my responsibilities didn't get reduced any, I was essentially doing a full time job in part time hours, and to be honest for most senior professional people that is the reality of part time working.

IMO 4 days is not really part time if you are still expected to do the same amount of work. It's different hours but not fewer hours.

Unfortunately that does seem to be the way it turns out for many people.

What does your employer say is going to happen on the days you are not there? Will someone else deal with the work or will it just pile up till you're back?

are they going to pay you for five days? what will happen to the work you would have done in the other day? (or two in your orig 3 day proposal).

i am fairly senior and do mine in 0.9, i started at 4 days but it was 80% pay for 100% job. i am pretty strict about working hours and how much i do too.

I do 4 days. But as I am in Sales, inevitably I end up working practically every Friday, around my kids, (hideous) and have just had my contract changed that I will get paid for the Fridays I end up working.

But then I realised that although I will get paid, I won't accrue the holiday owed, so am about to change my contract again so that by default I am 5 days with the option to take Fridays off, so that I get the full time benefits but also the option where possible to be off on Fridays.

So here I am back to pretty much full time.

I went back four days a week 18 months ago. After two months I'd had enough of still doing a full time job and more and only getting paid for four days. In my experience the other 20 percent of your role rarely gets reallocated and the employer just ends up the winner. After two months I ended up switching to compressed hours so doing a full time week on four days. It wasn't my first choice but at least I get paid for the work I do. So I agree really that you either do three or five days. And if the job is a 5 day one see if you can job share or compress the hours. I wish you the best of luck sorting it out.

Pointydog - is a lunch break half an hour?
If so I revise my proposal to 8:50 til 3:20...that's still a school day

i went back to work after dd1, wanted 3 days, ended up doing 4 days finishing at 4pm, so 69% of hours, 69% pay.

the job i did was done by a level senior than me, full time, before i did it.

why i agreed i do not know. i was doing a more than full time job for 69% of pay.

so be wary. or agree to it on the basis of ft pay with you determining how you will fit the role into 4 days.

You will be surprised (I think/hope) at how far a 4 day week goes towards maintaining your sanity. You do have to be tough with people, at least to start with, and turn your 'phone off on your day off.

Also - remember that they are only paying you 80%. On your working @ home day, use coffee breaks to load washing machine/dishwasher and make sure you finish on time - that way your actual day off is more of a baby-centered day instead of a getting jobs done day.

I do 4 days a week and still get the "oh are you having a day off today" from some of the chauvanist pigs men I work with - I have taken to repeating loud and long that when I am not working I am not being paid.

Other than that it is OK, honest - career advancement, etc easier than 3 days/week or jobshare IMHO/E.

yes agree with stealth

used to drive me mad - "oh you're not in fridays are you"
no and i am not paid for fridays either. you want them off? go ahead and take a 20% pay cut.

not that i was touchy. oh no... not me.

emy72 - do you have no travelling time for your work then? Am confused as to how you can propose to work only school hours (literally) and still take your dc(s) to school - unless you live and work at the school

I've just gone back 3 days and the balance is great, however after 2 days back I can already see how I will have to be super organised and focussed to get the work done. Naturally I'm only paid 60% of a full time job.

Imo, 4 days a week isn't part time enough to have the slack taken up work wise so you do 5 days in 4.

Scarlotti - I work entirely from home and my children's school is 5 minutes walk. I guess that's how I can get away with that...

Ah, now I understand ... and am quite Good for you!

After DS1 I did a 3 day week which quickly because a disaster as I was still doing a FT workload and spent way too much time on the phone/email on the 2 off days. I then went to a 4 day week which family wise was tough as I didn't see DS1 from bedtime sunday night to Friday morning (long hours) but I coped far better with the work and became VERY strict about my off days being off days and never/rarely taking calls etc.

I'm now back after having DS2 and working 4 days again BUT Tuesday I now work from home and I am SO pleased with how it's working out . I still get paid the same but actually get to see my children during the week - on my working from home day we all have breakfast & dinner together, I take DS1 to school, can do chores in between work and do the bedtime routine knowing there's only 2 more days in the office before my 3 day weekend. If you have a long commute, a day working from home is a total godsend IMO and makes a huge difference to the home/work balance.
LCN

Thanks for all the comments. It's really helpful to hear how working 3 or 4 days has impacted on your home/work life. I agree that essentially taking a pay cut of 20% will have to mean an equal reduction of responsibilities, I guess I'm just concerned that it'll fall to my already over worked team to pick up my slack. Not sure how that will make them feel Minipie I guess I'll have to have that conversation with my boss next week.

Ripeberry - I can't see 5 half days being an option as I'll be paying travel on each day and my CM will only take DS for full days. Nice alternative though.

Stealth - I also thought about getting the dull house stuff done on the working from home day. At least that'll free up the precious day off to spend entirely with DS.

Fishie - my original 3 day proposal was a jobshare so the other 2 days would have been covered off by someone else. A much better solution in my mind but there you go.

Hadn't even considered DH doing a four day week also. Although that obviously means a reduction in both our salaries.....

I'm speaking to boss in a few days time so I will mention reduced hours on the days I'm in the office to make sure I'm home for bath/bedtime and see if she'll let me do it for a trial period. Chandra I like your idea of reapplying for another day at home a bit further down the line. If it doesn't work out, maybe I can opt for a demotion and 2 or 3 days a week.

My experience of a 4-day week was that it wasn't really part-time, it was maybe 90 - 95% of the job for a 20% paycut.

It wasn't great for my career as I got worse projects at work and was seen as less career-focused.

It upset the balance of the household work in that I did most of the housework while DS napped on my day "off" (under my own steam) - this was not ideal either.

Also, the nursery fees for DS were not v different for 4 days a week or for 5 days a week as the prices are structured to get more predictable income.

Sorry! I think it can work though, it just depends on your job.