Is a 4 day week really part time?

[Flumpwoman]

I'm due back to work in August and have requested going to 3 days with my manager. My role is a fairly senior one and she said that it couldn't be done in 3 days. She then went on to suggest a job share and even went as far as approaching a potential candidate to do the other half of the role. Unfortunately this person couldn't accept the role for personal reasons.
After jumping through several hoops and writing a long proposal, the company have now turned down the job share, citing that it won't suit the business. Instead they've offered me a four day week (with one of those days at home) I accept this does go some way to a part time role but it's a massive mental leap to take on all of the responsibilities of my old role in four days as well as to leave my baby with CM for four days instead of three. The old work/life balance swings firmly in favour of work. Plus I'm angry that the job share option got as far as it did before HR stepped in and deemed it unsuitable for the business.
I do want to continue my career which I enjoyed before falling pregnant and don't want to kick up a fuss but wonder if anyone has any other suggestions I can go back with to negotiate further.
Apologies for the long post I'd love to hear your thoughts.

I do 4 days - I do 2 full days (DH has also gone part time so does childcare for 2 days), 2 short days (DD goes to nursery for "school day" hours) and I do the remaining 3 hours at home in evenings/weekends. My job has a lot of out of hours stuff so it suits them for me to work at the weekend without them having to pay me overtime. I am very flexible on when I do the extra hours.

Remember that you do not need to take a lunchbreak if you are working 6 hours or less, so you can work 9-3 without a break. I do this for my short days.

It's a pretty goood compromise. I would ideally like to do 3 days but there's no way I could do my job in that time and keep my current level of seniority. I like the fact that dd only spends 12 hours a week at nursery.

As I work 1 day a week more than DH, he does most of the household chores too.

Thanks everyone I found this really interesting. I wasn't sure whether to go back 4 or 5 days & you've all clarified that it's not worth 4 days pay whilst craming in 5 days work. Think I'm going to take a day off a week for the first month to ease myself in gently!!

I do 4 days a week as well after 3 days was turned down. It does have all the downsides mentioned above, but it is better than being 5 days as I do get a full day with DS which we both enjoy.

One thing I would say is that it is usually easier to increase your hours than it is to reduce them and that you are only entitled to submit a flexible working request once a year. Therefore if I were you I would be tempted to run with 4 days a week and then if it doesn't work I am sure your employers would be quite happy to change you back to f/t.

\hope whatever you decide works out for you.

I've done 4 days for a couple of years now. It is exhausting - I have never worked less than 40 hours in this time - but worth it to me. Saves us a day's childminding and also means I've been able to stay in touch with other mums, get involved with toddler group etc. I'm pregnant again though and really don't think this level of work is sustainable after this baby comes. The extra childcare and the fact that I'm totally shattered doing these hours puts me off continuing. Could you negotiate a 4 days trial period on your return? My boss was ok with me doing half days for a specified time period before going up to these hours.

I did 4 days a week in my previous post and loved it - I was tough about reducing the amount of work I had (i.e. saying loudly in meetings 'we'll need to re-allocate 20% of this project to another team member'), not replying to emails, not answering phone, etc. One other thing I did after a while, which I think helped, was not to say 'I don't work on Fridays', but to say 'I don't work for this company on Fridays', or 'I work on other projects on Fridays'. Occasionally, I did some consultancy work on my 5th day, and I tended to give colleagues the impression that this was what I did at least one day a week. If anything, I think that this probably promoted my career opportunities rather than reducing it.

Reducing a full time job to four days can be done but you do have to work at it. There are lots of things you can do and some of this can be done before you get back with the support of your boss.

• Look at all of the job responsibilities, think if they need to be done by your position, could they be done elsewhere?
• Are all the jobs done as efficiently as possible (processes, procedures, standard formats, etc can reduce workload but take time to set up)
• Are there others in your wider team who are underutilised / could be challenged?
• Is all the work required, done to the right level - not everything needs to be done and not everything needs to be done to A1 standard.
• If your company was considering a job share then the budget for the additional 20% of the time should still be available - think about how best to use this - additional admin support on your work days, temporary resource to set up procedures or fix time consuming tasks, ad hoc support as required for crunch times / key projects.

Remember there is always more work than can be done in the time available whatever your hours, learn what's important and how to reallocate, turn down the rest.

When you do go back to work, be vigilant with your time and learn to say no firmly without appologising for your four day week!! Choose one / two days where you can stay late to clear your inbox and finish stuff off so you are not always up against it. I would also strongly urge you to share drop offs and pick ups with your DP so that all the stress does not fall in your lap. Alternating earlys and lates worked best for me so no day was too short. Get a cleaner, do on line shopping and share the home work too. (Personally, I would look into hiring a nanny as this makes life alot easier, pick ups and drop offs easier and no travel, laundry gets done, more food for DC's, less stressful for everyone - but it's a personnal decision.)

I do 30 hours over 5 days, lots of my colleagues do 30 hours over 4 days, but I prefer shorter days so I can do the school run.

I work close to school, so with some longer days when DH is off duty and can drop off or pick up it works OK. I often have meetings over lunchtime and attend some evening meetings, which also helps with my hours.

Once I've left for the day I don't answer my blackberry, but I will answer the odd email if I'm waiting for something urgent.

I have an annualised hours contract which really helps. Im in a middle management role in the NHS, where part time and flexible hours is fairly normal, even in very senior posts.

I sometimes wish I had a day or two to myself, I work with several women who have school age DCs and work 3 or 4 days, but shorter days fits our family life best.

I'd second on-line shopping, I don't have a cleaner but I do flylady to keep on top of things, I have an ironing lady and I have a MIL who does the school run if I have an early/late meeting.

I'm planning to start a MSc in September, must be mad.

brennannbooth raises a good point about nursery costs - DS's nursery price structure was such that it was almost 'buy 4 days, get one free' - which was one reason why I didn't go part time while he was there. DD's nursery, on the other hand, charges a straight per session / per hour fee and it makes no difference how many days you do, so 4 days a week is exactly 80% of what full time would be.

Thanks so much for all your feedback. I've just had the conversation with my boss re her proposal of four days with one at home. She's agreed for me to do 9.30-4.30 and to use some of my accrued leave to take off one day a week for the first 6 weeks. With a week's holiday in mid September. Feeling so much more positive now that's been agreed. She was also incredibly supportive on the phone so I'm hoping everything will work out.

Now I just need to confirm the days with the CM...

Gosh, wish I had been able to see all this when I became a Mum 12 years ago. I too did 4 days a week and often worked 5. Eventually went back to 5 as fed up with no recompense for the day off - though one line manager very decently used to let me have an extra day off in lieu. Day officially working at home as paid day 5 was a better solution. One thing to think about down the line when your children are school age is to work full time (ish) in term time and then have longer summer holiday, with commensurate salary reduction. I know a few people who have done this and it has worked well for both employer and employee in certain businesses as the summer coincides with reduced business activity....Good luck and remember to make positive noises in your negotiations with your boss about wanting to make it work for both sides.

Thanks Outnumbered. Boss has even agreed to me having DS at home with me on my day working from home. Can't argue with that. I'll no doubt be working into the night to make up the hours but it'll give me a few extra precious hours during the day with him so I'm a happy bunny. I may well be back on this thread bemoaning working 5 days in 4 but at the moment it feels like the right decision

I have a new job starting in 4 weeks time after 6 years off as a full time mum. I have 2 sons, one 6 and one nearly 3. I am excited about my new job which will be 19 hours over 4 days per week, but already worried sick about the impact on the children, especially my youngest. I ma worried about juggling work with housework, cooking, food shopping, how on earth I'll get to spend enough quality time with my children and what impact it may have on them. I am wracked with guilt at the thought of not being there for them 100% anymore. I have a great partner who helps a lot around the house and with the children, but who works long hours and travels with work. Does anyone have a similar experience? Any advice on my feelings of anxiety and guilt? Any views on the effect / impact my working will have on my sons, positive and negative? Thank you!

NK7223572X128a0fdee05 - I suggest you post this as a new thread.

5 is better because you avoid chores and dull stuff with children at home. Also you keep a full time wage and you aren't regarded as "part time " or given full time work to do in four days nor does your other half think ah ha part timer she can do all the hoovering and shirt ironing because she's now just on the pin money.

why bother having children then if they are so dull...

I love them but in smaller doses than some men and women prefer, that's all. A few hours a day is great but it's nicer to have a balance as most of us do, male and female. Have you ever said to a man why have children if you work full time?

in most cases, one parent stays at home the majority of the time to look after DC. Your situation appears to be quite unique Xenia. I don't know many couples who both work full-time with under 5's (regardless of amount of DC).

I don't think I'd say it was at all unusual for both parents to work full time when their children are young - I expect that diffent groups of people have different experiences and expectations.

My DS loves the fact that I am able to drop him off and pick him up from preschool once a week. I get fulfillment from being able to do this for him.

Other things we both enjoy about my non working day is not being rushed out of the house on my schedule, being able to potter around with friends of his choosing not the CMs mindees.

I don't find my week day with him dull at all, in fact I find it the most rewarding of my week, although I probably would not enjoy it all week long.

"in most cases, one parent stays at home the majority of the time to look after DC. Your situation appears to be quite unique Xenia. I don't know many couples who both work full-time with under 5's (regardless of amount of DC)"

Not true, ALL of my friendship group with kids have both parents working.

NK7223572X128a0fdee05 Kids are resililient. Dont fret. Its just as good for them to set them an example of a mother who goes out to work to put food on the table as one who stays at home. Its just a DIFFERENT good example to set. And yes, no one has ever worried about the effect on a child of its father going out to work. Its only the society we are in that leads us to think the only way to bring up our kids well is to be with them 24 hours a day.

My childminder does a better job than me of looking after my daughter in the day as I cant bear doing kids activities all day. DD would be bored ridgid. She's reception age and clever, confident, bright etc etc. You have nothing to worry about.

Oh and OP, yes 4 days is part time... duh (sorry)

foureleven I think it must just depend where you live and the people you know. Where I'm from most have one parent at home all the time to look after the DC and other goes out to work. Eventually both parents go out to work (usually once DC are at primary school). Just my experience so far...

Only a few I know work part-time and the other full-time but never really heard of both parents out working full-time with such young DC. Each to their own.

You can't say that it is unique for two parents to both work full time when children are young; professions are packed full of women who work full time and have children - in fact I'd say in my circles (school, family, friends), all professional women I know (and their husbands) work full time very few exceptions.

And I'd say in answer to the OP that 4 days is pretty much full time in terms of expectations and how much you end up putting in.

it's unique in the area I'm from.

Where do you live? 1955?