When you work and have children do you spend your ENTIRE LIFE feeling this conflicted?

[Bumblyumptious]

Hello everybody! I went back to work three days a week two months ago. I love my work and am trying to build up a relatively new career. This might mean that at some point I have to go up to more days per week.

The thing is, EVERY DAY I feel so conflicted. Not working is almost unthinkable (financially and otherwise) but I also hate leaving my DD with her CM (she's not settled very well as yet).

So what I want to ask is, is this how it's going to be, forever? Will I always feel this tug in two different directions?

It doesn't help I think that in my sector (I'm an academic) if you want to work less than full-time you're seen as not really serious about your career. But that's not how I feel, it's just that I'm very serious about my DD too! I wish every day that I could literally be two people, one at work, and one at home!!

In short, no. But my DS is very happy at nursery, so I can go to work without worrying about him.

I have been back at work for a year soon, and dd is 21mo, and looked after 2 days a week by my mum, two days at nursery. I don't feel conflicted every day, generally only on the days when she's seemed a little 'off' the night before or in the morning, or is going through a particularly whiny or clingy phase.

Key to this, IMO and IME is to make sure that you are really happy and confident with your childcare. Then you can walk out of that door in the morning and switch from 'mummy' to 'professional person'.

The conflict/guilt/doubt about being a working mother, though, never goes away!

And in 5 minutes time they will be spotty, surly teenagers and you won't be wanting to see that much of them anyway!

Well, that's a comfort! I agree that if I felt sure that DD was happy then I'd feel a lot less guilty and stressed about the whole thing.

Oops, I cross-posted with some posts then - thanks for all your responses. Re; childcare, I'm just not sure if she's not happy with her CM and would be better somewhere else, or if it's the whole fact of not being with Mummy that's the issue. I don't want to change her CM with all that disruption if she's also miserable with someone else!

Hi Bumbly - I am an academic too, and know what you mean about the pressures of work and feeling conflicted.

My DD did take a while to settle at her CMs, partly because she was ill a lot in the first few months. I went back to work in October, and I would say it is only since after Christmas that she is really settled. She seems to love it there, and I feel 100% confident in the CM, who is wonderful.

Are you generally happy with the CM, and it's just a matter of your DD settling, or do you have some lingering doubts? If the latter, it might be worth investigating other childcare. I feel very lucky to have found someone good first time, as I know it sometimes takes a few changes until you have found childcare you're really happy with.

On the going full time thing - I try to tell myself that in a few years it will all be a very different ball game, DD will be at nursery, then at school, and there will be more time for work!

x-posted with you there

If YOU are happy with the CM then I would persevere for a bit longer. Like I said, it took my DD a while to settle, but I didn't move her because I felt I would not find anyone better than my current CM.

It is a horrible feeling though - I used to feel so anxious all day, worrying that she was unhappy. Now she is settled there, it is a huge weight off my mind.

Hang on in there!

Nope - DD has always been happy with her childcare/school, so apart from the first few weeks back, or occasionally if she is ill, I never worry about it. Or guilty for that matter. Guilt is a completely pointless emotion.

I do wish for and am aiming towards working fewer hours at least for a little while though.

Hello Bumblyumptious, I'm an academic too.
I agree totally with BecauseImworthit. We've been lucky to have childcare we're happy with from the start (apart from a painful interlude while dh was on sabbatical in a different city and the nursery was horrible).

My tug is slightly different - I constantly feel guilty that I am not doing enough work, and also guilty that I am not supporting dh enough (he is also an academic but does more than his share of childcare because I work in a different city). I don't feel conflicted about the principle of leaving dcs in childcare because they're happy and it's good for them (and me).

I think that you will feel better when your DD settles with CM - does she look after other children too? If not your DD might benefit from being in a small nursery with other children to play with. How old is your DD?
I have been back at work just over a year (3 days/week). I was very sad at the beginning but now my DD skips into nursery in the mornings (most of the time) and has made some great little pals.
Sometimes I do feel guilty or sad to leave her but I do also think that she gets alot out of being in the nursery and she has become confident and chatty (she has just turned 2) - I also think that as a mum the break at work it good for me.

Dustbuster - it gets worse when they are at school - except possibly not so much in academia - my life seems to lurch from one school holiday to the next worrying about piecing together childcare.

But, to the OP, no you won't feel like this for ever - knowing that they are basically happy at CM/nursery/school/holiday club makes all the difference - I was talking to the mother of one of DS's friends yesterday and her DS (6yo, youngest of 3) is so unhappy about her working full time for the first time in his life - she is feeling pulled in all directions and I really felt for her. Careers in which you have to be full time to be taken seriously are a nightmare - I am counting my blessings, and first on the list are a collection of wonderful managers who have recommended me for promotion and generally praised me to the skies in spite of the fact that I have been working 4 days/week since I went back when DD was 6mo old, and who would never dispute that a sick child comes above anything else in order of priorities.

Stealthsquiggle - I am dreaming about an au pair to cover some of the school hols and school pick ups - bad idea? Unfortunately academic holidays never coincide with half-term etc., and we are supposed to do loads of work in the vacations anyway.

If you live somewhere where it can be done, probably a good idea. It wouldn't work for us (rural area and no room for someone to live in), but we have other options in terms of flexible work, holiday clubs, parents - it is the pulling together of bits of the jigsaw which takes time and stress.

Thanks so much for your responses everybody.

To the academics who responded, can I just ask whether you work FT or PT? Would you agree that PT is not seen as career-worthy or do you think it's doable? I'm only at postdoc stage and PT jobs are never advertised for research posts. If it's a lectureship, seems like I might as well forget it, its FT or nothing! It drives me mad as the exact same academics who bash up the commercial world for discriminating against women, are just as bad - if not worse! Sorry, going a bit off topic here with a rant!

I work f/t but flexibly - so I can make up time at evenings and weekends. I don't have any formal arrangement for this, though. In my field, this is perfectly possible and quite a few people seem to do it. But obviously if you are in a field with lots of lab work, it wouldn't work.

You'll rarely see p/t lectureships advertised. It might be possible to get a f/t job and then go p/t.

I thought about going officially p/t when I had DD, but worried about the career implications and also whether I would ever be able to return to a f/t position. Given the current economic climate, I am glad I stayed f/t.

I agree that a lot of academics see p/t work as less serious - and I would rather stay officially f/t, perhaps have a few years where I am less productive, and then get my career going again when DD is a bit older. You are right to rant, it is ludicrously sexist.

Thanks Dustbuster, that's interesting and helpful.

Bumbly - I am still FT and dd is nearly 4 now. I have been very keen to stay FT, not because of how other people see you but because so much of the job involves staying on top of research and other developments in the field, which will take up the same amount of time whether I was FT or PT.
(Also I do a weekly commute to be there 3 days a week so I have expenses which would stay the same whether I was FT or PT.)

However I am planning to have a 3rd baby and frankly I probably can't manage to be FT with 3 under 5, so I may well end up going down to say 80% and see how I get on.

I do have a colleague who has been 80% for years and no-one ever noticed! 50% might be harder to achieve that with though!

Frankly in my position now I am just attempting to keep my career ticking over so that when my dcs are grown up I will still have it - I couldn't currently give a fig whether anyone else takes me seriously as long as I feel I am doing my job reasonably well. Once dcs are a bit bigger I will start getting ambitious again.

I should add - there was one person in my university who is very well established and respected in her field, and when she had her third child the uni actually agreed a contract where she went PT for few years with the option of going back to FT. I don't think I am good enough to get such a good deal, but it is nice to see it is starting to happen.

That is really interesting, thanks. I think the thing about this career (and why I have gone back to it in my 30's) is precisely that I love it and want to be doing it FT in many ways, but I guess because lots of academics feel like that, that's what contributes to the problem. If that makes sense, not very eloquently put!

Bumbly, I work pt flexibly, very close to ft. I don't feel conflicted.

I think the key to your conflict is (1) your dd has not settled with her CM; and (2) you have not made the mental shift that as a pt worker, you WILL be taken less seriously and sidelined.

For (1), give it a bit longer and then look for another cm or childcare. Once your dd is a little older, she might find it easier as well.

For (2), you have to tell yourself your career will be on hold whilst you are pt. Then see how viable it is to gear up later once you are ready. Have other pt academics regained their credibility and career track and how did they do it?

Yes you are competing against people who not only work full time, but also work every evening and weekend because they love their job so much

I think what you have to do is be very selective about what you do - one advantage of academia is that a lot of the job is what you make of it (eg you can chose whether to accept particular invitations to speak, what to publish, whether to organise conferences etc). That frees you up to focus on certain things and do them very well. Some people I know with children are very good at picking the high-profile things and getting a good reputation even though they do not actually work any more than anyone else, whereas other people just have their heads down and concentrate on their research and don't really worry about what other people think of them. You can choose how strategic to be to some extent, I think.

Kathy - "I do have a colleague who has been 80% for years and no-one ever noticed!" - rings bells with me. I am 80% FTE and do that 80% fairly flexibly (although I do have a fixed 'day off' when DD is not at nursery). If asked in advance most people would have said that the job was hard/impossible to do PT and yet I have been doing it that way for 2 years now (it is essentially the same job I was doing FT pre-DD) and no-one has noticed the impact. I think in the commercial world just as much as in academia if you wait for posts to be advertised as PT then you would be waiting for ever - getting a job offer and then asking if it can be done PT (or doing it FT for a while) seems to be the way to go.

80% is enough to make it financially worth while, and 1 day a week at home is enough to keep me semi-sane and keep DS and DD happy.

I did.

I went back when ds 1 was 9 months to 2 1/2 days a week (I'm a teacher)

ds was ill with all the usual first winter bugs and I had to take a couple of days to look after him (think it was about 2/3 days at the most, mainly half days so it appeared more) Nursery called and when I picked ds up they told me that the secretary of the school when told that ds was ill said 'what? He's ill again???' My head teacher told me that she wouldn't be paying me -fine but other teachers were having time off for choir tours (church related so obviously touk precedent over a sick child ) depression and death of relatives. I was mentioned in the head teacher's report as being constantly absent, the other teachers were not. I had worked for the school 2 years previously and had not long absenses, just the odd day. It all changed when I had my son.

I felt torn, that when I was at school I was worrying what ds was doing and was anxious should he become ill and I would have to go. When I was at home I spent my days off wishing him to ahve naps so I could egt my marking done and planning etc. It just didn't work for me. Hats off to those that it does, it just didn't work for me.

Muppetgirl, that's terrible.
I think sadly it is fairly common for employers to change their attitude when you have children (whether you are FT or PT). I certainly felt I had to prove myself all over again.

Stealth - yes, I agree totally, that the way to do it is to go for a FT job and then ask if it can be done PT. My job is FT but I have great hopes that if I go to my HoD and ask to go down to PT he will actually be delighted as it will help him balance the budget.

That's all really interesting stuff, thanks so much everybody. I must try and get the CM thing sorted, I think I'm going to give it another 4 - 6 weeks and then try a different solution if it's still not working.

Muppetgirl, that sounds stressful, glad you've made a decision now that works for you.