Flexible working application turned down. Anyone else in the same boat.? Looks like I'll be a SAHM.

[peachsmuggler]

Applied for 3 days a week and it was turned down. They offered me 4 but this isn't going to work for us so I guess will have to reject their offer and resign. In lots of ways am happy to be SAHM but now that it is going to happen, feel a bit scared at thought of not earning any money/having no career etc.

Has anyone else been in this position? How did you adjust your mindset to not going back to work???

bump

anyone?

Did they give you a good reason? That would stand up in court? How high up the management did the decision go? Could you take it further. Do you think it's realistic to do your job in 3 days?

Peachsmuggler I was in exactly the same situation as you about 2 years ago.

Due to lots of helpful advice from Mumsnetters I agreed to go back 4 days a week but with slightly reduced hours 9.30 - 4.30 and a half hour lunch break.

I can't pretend it's not hard work, but then being at home 7 days a week is hard as well. The reduced hours may not sound like a lot, but it makes a big difference because we aren't rushing round like crazed loons in the morning, and in the evening DS isn't completely exhausted when I pick him up from the C/Ms. Incidentally DS loves his CM to bits, although clearly not as much as MummyDaddy ( we appear to be a united entity at the minute)

Ideally I would like 3 days a week, so I keep looking for potential job share partners or vacancies where that might be possible. Sadly with the financial climate the way it is and restructure after restructure, its hard to see how that would happen atm, but certainly if I had anotherDC I would be pushing hard for it. I do think you have more chance of getting down to 3 days a week in an existing position, rather than with a new company.

Also coincidentally enough the day after I returned to work, DH was made redundant. Luckily he found work soon enough, but being totally dependant on one salary is something to consider when you make your decision.

You say that 4 days a week wouldn't work for your family. Is there a particular reason for that ?

What I did is go back and made a conscious decision to review the position in 6 months time. If I hated it, then I would have given up, but I didn't so kept going.

How old is your DC ? Taking the maximum amount of extended Mat leave, and also any parental leave could make a difference to your decision.

Sorry feel like I am really pushing you towards WOHMdom and its not all plain sailing, if being SAHM is what you want to do then go for it, but do get a sense from your post that you feel like you are being pushed into a corner.

Tried to do a link to my old thread, but utterly useless and can't. I just think it would be really helpful for you.

If you search under Going Back to work its titled " Turned down 4 days a week, think I'm going to be jobless, help" I started it in 26/07/06 under the name rookiemum. Anyone any good at links ? Its thread #4019564.

Went fairly high up the management, i.e was my boss and my boss's boss that decided, along with HR.

Catilla Reason they gave is the type of job I do requires me to be there more than 3 days a week. was also not allowed to do 8-4 as need to be there the "core hours".They're perfectly within their legal rights, it's more about the fact they they are not open to/support of flexible working and assume it won't work, but they have not tried it, so how can they know. They would rather support the status quo rather than think creatively about new ways of working.

rookie - DC will be 11 months when I am due to go back so will have had my full year off. Reason why 4 days wouldn't work is that the reason I want to go part time is to have a better work/life balance. Working 4 days woudl mean i had more time away from DD than with her, which to be is the wrong balance.
It would mean being in the office 1 day less, but let's face it I would end up doing a full time job but in 4 days, only with a 20% pay cut, while still being viewed as a part-timer (not a good thing in my office) I know they would not consifer reduced hours (even half an hour) as is just not done in our office.

You are right, am annoyed about being pushed into a corner, and to be honest was also about the whole process. I based my application on my job as I left it. However at the meeting it became apparent that the focus of my role has changed rendering a lot of my application irrelevant. In addition to this accordoing to the policy doc after you send in your app, they are suypposed to arrnage a meeting in order to discuss with you the proposed working pattern then get back to you within 14 days with a yes or a no. What actually happened is that they had their discussions and decided to refuse my request and so when I went in for the meeting they said at the start it was a no and here are the reasons why it won't work before asking me to comment and then telling me their alternative proposal. IMO that is NOT the same as discussing the propsal with me. Do you think I should complain that the process wasn't followed, or would that be burning my bridges??

at all my spelling mistakes!

Thanks rookie - will have a look at it!

I was in exactly exactly the same boat.

My work was also a long commute though and although it was a good job and well paid a few of the people there did get up my nose.

I decided that I didn't want to work more than 3 days under any circs for various reasons - mainly childcare and spending time with DD.

I also reckoned that they weren't exactly going to be supportive if they weren't even prepared to meet me halfway on hours.

Anyway I left and got a different job nearer to home in a very family friendly environment with an organisation who does something i think is very worthwhile.

It's less money but nearer and I'm really happy.

Just to let you know that your old job isn't the only job in the world - maybe have a think whether there is something you would prefer to do and see this as an opportunity for a change? If you're really not happy with 4 days then don't do it I reckon as yu will resent it - but that's just my view.

Good luck

Perhaps worth considering what their attitude will be if you come back and question the decision. How keen are they to keep you? Is it a large or small organisation? Will they miss you, or are you one of many?

If you think it's just a negotiating tactic, worth thinking through how you believe you would make it work on 3d, and going back to them, explaining that you are likely to quit if this is all they can offer. If not, then I'm afraid I'm not sure what they can offer but would second ChukkyPig's suggestion about finding something new (perhaps in your own time).

Good luck!

Thanks chukkypig. I think you are right about seeing it as an opportunity for change. my job is ok, but not that enjoyable.

I suppose the only problem is finding part-time work that pays enough to make paying for childcare worthwhile, but you are right and I also feel that even if we managed to come to some compromise, they would not be that supportive and we be looking for ways to show why it wasn't working and why they 'd been right in the first place.

I'm sure I would resent doing 4 days so don't think it would be the the way forward.

They appear very keen to keep me and were telling me how valued I am. I am one of only a couple of people that can do the work that they have coming up and they are going to be really busy with it, but I think that's what their point is. they think they need me there more than 3 days because there is stuff that only I can do.

Not sure if it has occurred to them that the alternative is me leaving, but surely they must have considered this. Not sure if theirs is a negotiating tactic, but I don't think so as they seemed pretty adament that I couldn't do 3 days and, as I said, they had already decided this before the meeting.

I guess I will turn it down and ask if they feel there is any way they could reconsider my application.

Seriously peach you sound just like me 2 years ago.

If I were you I would think hard about what compromises could make it acceptable. How about 3.5 days per week or 3 days one week and 4 the next. Perhaps they would consider 1 day from home which would make a big difference for time spent with your DD.

Also I hear what you are saying about the reduced hours, but it appears to me that you have a stronger bargaining position than you think. If you are genuinely prepared to walk away from them, then they may well be keen to negotiate round the parameters of the 4 days. What about extra holidays, we can buy up to a week at our place and again that makes a difference ?

I did exactly the same calculations as you about hours spent with DS versus at work, and even on 4 days by the time I have added in holidays and everything else, was still spending more time with him than away.

Oh and if you do go back, you can get past this unpleasant time, I did, although it wasn't easy.

couldn't you job share - 3 days/2days?

peach I see you are in london, I would thoroughly recommend womenlikeus. I got my present job through them and so did one of my friends they really are very good.

What rookie said makes sense but bear in mind they might just say no. I thought it was in the bag - team short of people, they'd been trying for a couple of years to find additional people and couldn't, excellent performance reviews etc. But they couldn't see past their full-time, "presenteeism" culture. If i had taken their offer I'm sure I would have been expected to do the same amount of work and I'm sure i would never have been promoted.

Not that I'm bitter .

I also think you should stand firm on what you want and hopefully they will agree. If not though it's not the end of the world, there are other jobs out there!

I do 21 hours a week, and initially this was not well received.

As part of my application I stressed that I would use my blackberry on my non-working days and check for urgent messages. I am lucky enough to have very flexible childcare so I agreed to flex my days as and when to suit business needs. In practice this happens rarely as I manage my own diary and schedule things accordingly.

I have a work laptop and the ability to access our systems from home, so I sometimes do that to maintain visibility and to show willingness! What it means is that in practice I usually show up at the office 2 days a week, and do an hour or so on the other days when DS is asleep.

Some of my clients have no idea that I'm part time, and for me this works well, but obviously it depends on the nature of your job.

My organisation agreed to a trial period of 3 months and I told them that I'd make it work, and I have, although I suspect it was bit of a gamble on their part.

Can you think about how you might use technology to support your flexible working? Some organisations forget that work isn't a place, it is something you do, so sometimes it doesn't matter where you do it, but the outputs.

I hope you resolve this to your satisfaction.

Thanks for all the good advice!

There is no-one to job share with and they wouldn't/probably couldn't hire someone to do the other 2 days.

I don't want to do half days, as although have short commute at the moment, if we move house which is quite likely, it is likely to be an hour's commute, and I would consider commuting 2 hours in a day to do a 3.5 hour day, a waste of time.

Despite the fact I can access the systems from home, and indeed am expected to when on call, they are very against working from home during normal working hours, and, like you chukky they have a reall "presenteeism" culture. I don't think working 3 days one week and 4 the next would work out with the nursery and we don't have any family near to help out.

I'm perfectly willing to say I will resign and see this through, rather than risking it as a bargaining chip, if you see what I mean. I wouldn't be calling their bluff, I really would be prepared to leave if it came to that.

I will have a look at that website Chukky

Goodness, reading this back, I do sound rather inflexible, but the bottom line is I want what I want, and there are plenty of other businesses where this would be seen as reasonable.

Ok I will bow out after this.

It may be worth requesting another meeting with them, after all what have you got to lose. Perhaps you could agree to 4 days a week but use parental or accrued holiday leave to work 3 days a week for a trial period.

There may be lots of other businesses falling over themselves to offer 3 days a week, but I certainly haven't heard of them. So if you do walk away then make sure you can survive on one income.

Good luck, I know its a difficult position to be in.

Sounds like you work for my old company peachsmuggler! Working from home not an option there either...

Good luck and let us know how you get on!

Have got their letter of refusal and is a lot worse when written down and all official!

Am going to appeal it though and see what happens.

have you considered asking if you can work from home on the 4th day? I understand that you don't really want to work more than 3 days a week, but if they can be flexible around location then it might be worth it for a bit (obviously you'd still need childcare, but for less hours) and it might be a step towards applying to work 3 days a week in a few months time. Once you've done the job 4 days a week, with one day out of the officce, for a bit, it might be easier to argue you could do some of it in 3 days.

It may also help if you offer to work Monday, Weds, Friday (for example) so that there's no chance of something going horribly wrong and you being off for days on end (eg if you only worked Mon-Weds).

I know it's not exactly what you want, but is there any chance your DH could go p/t with 4 days per week also? So whilst you would both be working 4 days per week, the balance is right for your DS?

Just a thought.

Sorry, DD

fillybuster I wouldn't want to do the 4th day from home even if they let me as don't want DD to be in nursery 4 days. they will only allow us to make one flexible working app a year and I wouldn't want to depend on something happening which probably wouldn't. I don't think they are thinking too much about something going wrong when I am not there, their letter turning me down seemt o focus more on the amount of work not being anle to be covered in 3 days.

veryhungry- a good idea, however DP is a contractor and had so his job changes all the time, we couldn't afford for him to turn down work, just cos it wasn't a 4 day a week job.