Trainee solicitor - pregnant, and not really getting on with work....!

[cfc]

Hello,

I am a trainee solicitor in my penultimate seat - I have 3 months in litigation to do from Jan - March and then the plan is that I qualify into the private client dept in June. My baby is due on May 7th and I can qualify in my absence from work as long as it isn't for 4 months or longer.

Anyway, my firm are in the process of letting people go, cutting back etc. I was taken on as a trainee but a viable fee earner in the conveyancing depy just before it went tits up. I had a fee earner's wage - not a trainee wage. I didn't do well in that dept though I have had lots of experience. I wasn't given the work which came in as there wasn't much of it and what I did do was of law value, th work went to the fee earners who had been here longest, as it should, I suppose.

So I moved into the private client dept but have had some trouble grasping the work and have had regular meetings (aside from my monthly Training Principal meetings) with the two women who head the dept about the standard of my work. They aren't happy with me and I am really not happy here. Now I know why the last trainee left, and the two women they got in in her stead left, one within two weeks of starting. It's just such a difficult dept to work in and the pressure on me is high thanks to the fact that I am still benig paid as a fee earner but now don't bring in anything more than my £1000 a month trainee target.

I hate it here and plan to leave, but I live about 1 hour from work and all my appts for ante-natal care are in my home town. I know that they are going to start getting pissed off with me and wondering what's going on. I am nearly 10 weeks pregnant. Bearing in mind the above, shall I tell them now?

What will help me the best? If I tell them now are they likely to think twice before making me redundant or sacking me (I think it might be that close, they're losing too much money on me!) or will it make them do it, do you think?

Help please, I am in such a quandary!

Thank you for reading.

Cx

cfc so sorry for the situation you're in. I think from my reading of the postings on this thread, that it would be to your advantage to tell them that you're pg.hoping someone more knowledgeable comes along!

Thanks dithering, I am hoping that my work will somehow come up to standard, but I think they've been kinda working towards letting me go when I qualify in June anyway, what with the firm letting others go....so they say things to me about what I should be doing now which I KNOW aren't really true - I just wish it had worked out. Anyway, I am sure we'll be able to cope if I don't go back to work, DH has a good job, I just wonder if I'll get bored?! Part time always a good option in my line of work though.

Anyway, thank you for your reply!

I'd lean towards telling and sooner rather than later, especially if you can work it out so you can qualify and get some paid maternity leave, even if that's just on statutory maternity pay. They might not be happy but it will make them much more cautious about getting rid of you and you might be able to get a deal if they do want you out which would be better than if you weren't pregnant. If you can qualify it would be easier to go back to a job (not necessarily that one) later. In terms of maternity leave, being restricted to less than 4 months sounds very hard.

Ah, elkiedee, I should explain I am on a fixed term contract of 1.5 years ending 2 June 2009. Baby is due on 7 May. I can qualify as a solicitor (not for paid maternity) if I don't take off more than 4 months within my training period of 1.5 years. Does that make sense?

I do qualify for mat leave and SMP on current figures as I have been with the firm for almost a year now etc etc. So I am ok on that front.

I have a friend who is an employment sol and I think I'll speak with her over dinner this week and see what she says. The thing is I have to lodge another request for absence form with my training principal and as I work so far away from my docs it's going to be like 3 hours out of the office!

Argh!

I don't know what to do for the best. My position seems so tenuous you see! Do I tell and risk them getting rid of my sooner rather than later anyway citing my poor performance, or do I not tell and just try and work harder and try try try to get up to their standards, though I have my theories that they aren't reachable anyway and like I said before, they're simply working towards me not being kept on......

You are in a difficult situation and I sympathise. I got pregnant about 3 months post qualification and told the firm as soon as I had my first appointments (about 3/4 months). In retrospect this was a mistake as the work they gave me lessened and I wasn't taken very seriously. I think you should bear this in mind when you make your decision, although there are clearly other things to be concerned about.

People are always terrified of making pg people redundant and remember that the end of a fixed term contract doesn't mean that you can just be shown the door...or it could lead to unfair dismissal. Suggest you chat through this with yoru employment lawyer friend.

Thanks mumof2, I'll certainly see what she has to say. I don't want to stay on after I qualify anyway, baby or not. What I really want is to move closer to family again and buy a house up North. But I want it to be on my terms!

I think you're concerned about a number of things which you should sort out separately.

1. Dismissal now as a trainee
2. Failure to get a job on qualification.
3. Current stress of job and travelling problems

1. If they dismissed you now before your t/c ends it would be wrongful dismissal and they would be liable to pay you until the end of your t/c. Hence there is no point dismissing you in order to save costs as they save nothing and just incur legal fees and a bad insurance record.

1. You will either get a job or not and much will depend on the economic climate at the time. Property seems to have been hit the worst of all the sectors atm so it may not be a good idea to qualify into it anyway. Think about your options. If you're not having a good time it might just mean the firm isn't right for you. You say you qualify in June and are due in May. I think you have misunderstood the law society requirements. 4 months of maternity count towards the 2 years. If you have April and May off you'll still have enough time to cover your t/c requirements and then you can have the statutory length of maternity leave after a year. You could consider applying for a new job when you end maternity leave as then you'd be starting as a fresh employee whereever you go.

1. Can you have your antenatal appointments closer to work?

1. How they treat you will depend on your attitude and theirs. If you show you're fully capable and up and running they will like you and give you what work they can. If you don't you'll get shunted into non-paying things. That's life I'm afraid.

Was there any aspect of your training contract that you successful at? You need to be thinking of what to do after maternity leave, and would be better to leave on good terms, but good reference!

I would have an honest discussion as far as where your talents lie. OK, so you aren't flourishing in the dept you're in now, but isn't this part of the training contract? To find these things out sooner rather than later?

Good advice re: ante natal care closer to work, but there aren't that many appointments with a non high risk pregnancy.

Definitely tell them you are pregnant. You are entitled to paid time off for ante-natal appointments so if they are proving to be a problem that should sort that out straight away.

They are also likely to be more cautious about taking any action, whether it be redundancy or dismissal, if they know someone is pregnant, and won?t do so unless they can be sure and can prove it?s nothing to do with the pregnancy. So it will give you some protection.

It?s also important you mention it in the context of the meetings you are having about your performance. If you are being formally ?performance managed?, it?s in your own interest to raise with them any conditions or issues ? physical or otherwise ? that could be affecting your work performance to make sure they take these into account during the process. I?m not saying you should say your pregnancy is affecting your performance if it isn?t, but it could be, and they can?t take that into consideration if they don?t know.

If I work this out correctly, you have less than a year service at the moment. So you have no protection against unfair dismissal ? they can get rid of you for no reason with no problem at the moment ? but you do have protection against sex discrimination, which detrimental treatment due to your pregnancy would be.

You mention that you hope your work will ?suddenly come up to standard?. That won?t happen, obviously, you will need to establish what the problems are, which I?m sure you already have, and do whatever you can to sort them out. That?s your best way of making sure they have no desire to get rid of you in the first place.

I agree re telling the firm you are pg as soon as you feel comfortable about it. We have recently made people redundant here, and it's very difficult to get the law right about firing pregnant ladies. If your firm does employment law advice as well they will be especially harshly treated at tribunal if they make a mistake.

You will find it hard to get an NQ property job at the moment. I think you should stick with a related field - and private client isn't bad in that respect - and then when the market picks up / you relocate, you can try to move back into property then. People will understand that you wanted to stay in law, even if it wasn't your first choice of specialism. And there is something about seeing a CV where the candidate has moved on qualification which always makes me wonder whether they jumped or were pushed. 6 months at your current firm is all that's needed to remove that question mark.

I also think it's easier to look for work while you are employed, so I would stay with your current firm if you can bear it.

Hello and thanks for the replies.

I think the main problem is that they haven't had too many trainees here before and I can compare it with my last firm which is a larger, more professional (as it were) regional firm. They took me on as a trainee here as I was head hunted from my position at my last firm as conveyancing fee earner, I applied (and was awarded, one of 13 people who were and hundreds who applied) a tc with my last firm. But this firm offered more money and was closer (at the time, I have since moved offices!) to home. They said that they would give me a tc and "pay lip service" to the Law Society re: my training. It was basically a training contract in name only. I was to be a conveyancing fee earner, and that's what they paid me.

When the market went tits up I didn't get any of the work, only low value stuff, as the peeps who'd been here for a long time got the work, naturally. So I wasn't earning any fees.

Then they had numerous problems in the private client dept (four women leaving in quick succession, why didn't I take the hint!) and they asked if I would transfer to that office and qualify into private client. Seeing the conveyancing market break down I was happy to do so. Though I had no experience whatsoever in wills and trusts work.

The pressure was on from the start to make up for the missing person in the office. Also there was the fact that now I was a proper trainee, but on a fee earner's wages and they have really, realy resented me for it and mention it at every meeting we have.

I have asked for meeting with the woman I work for mostly to discuss my performance only to be to "C, ** is your training principal". And that's that. I pushed and pushed and said "well I do all my work for you, wouldn't it be prudent to hear what I need to do from you?" to which she replied "Fine, diarise Thursady". It was at this meeting the principal also attended and said that they would expect me to have 40/50 files in my own name by now. I have been here in this dept for 14 weeks (or had been at that time). The first two weeks I had neither a desk nor a computer. I had been shunted from office to office and never were they ready for my arrival. I felt completely unsettled and with my principal working part time it was SO difficult to get a flow of work back to her and back to me going, see what I mean?

I know that my work won't just go up to the standard they want, but I am working towards it, i really am. I try and lodge time how they like, but can't as I have to have confirmation that I can lodge that amount of time and that take so long to get from the woman I work for. It's really difficult to explain.

I seriously think they're just angling to let me go at the end of my tenure.

At my last firm I was billing on average £10000 a month. I would easily, via their excellent case management system, log 7 hours a day billable and if we worked super long days, it could be 12 hours (for those who don't know we work in 6 minute units so we don't actually need to be there for 12 hours!). I just feel like coming here I have taken a massive step back and have lost my confidence.

But I think I will tell them. Though I have only been tired throughout the pgcy so far, not poorly thank goodness! But when I need the time off at least they'll know why.

Oh, and the woman I work for is notorious for being tough to work with and is depserate for a baby, so I am NOT looking forward to her finding out....

I have until April which is when I leave for mat leave to sort out my work, but I swear I am working so hard and double checking everything, it honestly, honestly can't be all me.

Oh and I checked with the SRA and they confirmed that as long as I haven't taken more than 4 months off my tc for mat leave or sickness then I will go onto qualify as a solicitor on 2nd June.

I will have been here one year on 3rd dec.

Shall I tell them today?

(so sorry for essay guys!)

ps I don't want to go back to this firm and will give notice during the correct period of my mat leave. I will look for a job elsewhere if I don't like being a SAHM.

I am more worried about getting sacked in the meantime and getting nothing from them in terms of SMP.

pps - Private client = wills and trusts administration which is what I definitely want to qualify into. I don't want to work in property again.

Off the top of my head, you have to be in employment 15 weeks before due date, which is week 25 to qualify for SMP. You get your MAT B1 form week 20, usually.

So, in meantime, tell them you are pregnant and that MAT B1 to follow.

Thanks Ilovemydog (I love my dog too!) I had got that straight in my head so far. I was just wondering when to tell them with my position within the company feeling so precarious to me. Would it be better to tell now, or later? I think I'll tell them shortly. Will speak to my friend tonight and husband and see what they say. At least I'll be able to breathe out when everyone knows!!

Your priority should be to qualify. That's the most important thing. It would be very hard to get another training contract to finish off your training.

I will qualify, as long as I don't take off more than 4 months I will qualify on 2nd June - my question is whether to tell work asap or not that I am pg so that they don't get rid of me before the end of my tc.

Hmm - the advantages of telling them is that you will be protected from a sex discrim stance and they will have to justify any changes they potentially will make....

What are the disadvantages in not telling them? They may not offer you a permanent position after your training contract? But aren't they not really fulfilling their end of the training contract anyway and using you as a fee earner?

If it was me, I would tell them asap, and preface it, 'well, it's early days, and perhaps my performace hasn't been stellar, but it's those pesky hormones...'

As far as I can read on the net, if you take longer than 4 months maternity, then they have to extend your training contract. They would be very unwise to terminate you if they know you are pregnant. I would tell them, in writing, before you might show, because then they can not claim they were unaware, so they will have to prove they did not discriminate against you if they do dismiss you.

my priority would be making sure i qualified ie that i got kept on for as long as needs be to ensure qualification in June. I had friends who - for various reasons - couldnt complete a training contract with their original firm, so had to transfer their training to new firm. it gets very complicated, and definitely best avoided.

i would tell them as soon as possible, and in writing. sounds to me as though they possibly cant afford to keep you on after you qualify and may have been hoping that you would get fed up and leave......when they find out you are pregnant they will probably expect you wont return after mat leave, which will suit them & hopefully in consequence they will give you an easier time!

re antenatal appts, i worked over 1.5 hours from home when i was pregnant with ds1, and did lots of long hours so only attended the absolute bare minimum of appts, but i dont like being fussed over, poked & prodded (& was lucky enough to have a very easy & uncomplicated pregnancy) so that wasnt a problem for me! as had been said above, so long as no complications, you wont have that many appts anyway

I think I will tell them then. Thanks so much for your considered responses. I really wouldn't stay here after qual anyway - we are lucky in that I could take time off to consider my next move. I hate it here that much.

Shame really, I had such high hopes. I said no to their offer originally, and they practically begged me to come and meet all of the partners. I looked into their staffing and they have for the most part been here for 15 years or so! My training principal qualified here and trained the parter I work for mostly, but it appears that long service just means they are SO stuck in their ways and (I hate this word) but so cliquey!! So much so that when I went away to get married in July I left a basic registration of Enduring Power of Attorney file with a colleague and when I returned all the docs I'd sent out before I went away had come back all registered and perfect, but she had literally changed my file around to the way she had it! I know it sounds like a small thing, but that is SO rude. I am left handed and it all suited me. She's taken everything out, hole punched all my papers on the opposite side...put it all back in the way she has her files. I couldn't believe it, but who could I talk to about it? Small firm = practically NO HR and you cannot keep your grievances to yourself for love nor money. I have heard the partners (inc the managing parter, a man) chatting and gossiping about their staff. They are currently trying to push a long time conveyancing fee earner out instead of offering her the massive redundancy she's obviously entitled to. I heard one of the sols who heads up Lexcel say to the other sol who did her (the lady they're trying to push out) file reviews "so, is there nothing we can get her on?".

So, I will tell them today as I am giving in another absence to be form and I think that they'll start to get suspicious anyway.

I'll just tell them and give the MATB1 closer to the time.

Thanks again. You are stars x

Good luck.

Don't worry too much about not having post-qual experience at the same firm. I left my training firm to go to another on the face of it because there were no vacancies in the area I wanted to qualify into for reasons connected with their business development and was welcomed with open arms by a number of rather better firms. They didn't know I was 16 weeks pregnant....

Point is other firms tend to look at your academics and experience and so long as you have a valid reason for moving are usually quite pleased to have someone who has been trained at another's expense.

I was in a good large firm and even then, when I was pregnant, it was very difficult - also when I went back. They veered between two extremes 1. you're totally fragile adn ill and can't be given anything but the most basic work and 2. you're superwoman and can take on everything and do really long days. Talking to them just pushed them back to the extreme that I wasn't at!

One partner explained to me that the problem was most women didn't get pregnant so early on in their careers. Helpful. Didn't want to wait til I was 35+, and what was I meant to do - rent out the baby til the firm felt ready for it?

But do give them all the info and just get qualified as best you can. Hopefully your litigation seat will be better. BTW are you getting any extra training in tax etc for the probate work? If you're thinking that you're moving anyway, getting all the little extras in for your CV would be agood idea.

Thanks tigs, I'm not too worried tbh. Like I say we're ok financially and my big plan was to move once I'd qualified from here anyway to another firm closer to home (which means and house move!) as I always wanted to be close to family to have babies.

Where we are we know just a handful of people, literally, and it's going to be tough, I know it. DH is away maybe one week a month with work, I can see myself quite easily slipping into some sort of depression with everything going on and him being away!!

Now, I've just got to convince him.

But you are right, clearly the reason I've changed firms is because of the move (hopefully anyway!!) and I've honestly never heard any of my friends getting asked "why didn't you stay in your training firm?" more like "yippee, we didn't have to train you, earn some fees!".

Dh wants to have a chat about it all tonight (me telling work soon, that is) so I'll wait until tomorrow, pluck up the energy without the dutch courage!!

Hey poppy, yes, IHT mitigation and trust administration, so all will be added to CV. I just feel like my confidence has taken a real knock as opposed to how confident I was at my last firm....I have found myself wondering if I am in fact more secretary than solicitor! Then I look back at appraisals at my last firm and the billing figures and think, nah, you're ok. It's this firm that are the problem here - I haven't changed that much!!

I don't understand what employers want us to do? Stop populating the planet? Who on EARTH will caddy for them in their dotage?!