Tiredness - does it ever get better?

[Copper]

I'm a full time civil servant, I'm a mother of three, I'm expected to work at home to complete my workload, I'm the secretary and fair organiser of the PTA, I help in school, I even get an hour to myself a week singing - but I am an absolutley lousy housewife. I look at the mess and go to bed worn out instead of tackling the piles of clean and dirty clothes, the stinking loo, the washing up, the mess, the toys everywhere. I'm ashamed to ask anyone in. My husband and kids don't even see it as a problem. Money is tight and cleaners are expensive. I feel worn out, demoralized - and look upon the Easter holdiay as the time when I can sort it all out, create a happy time for everyone - ha ha ha, I know I'll end up shouting at them. They are all totally impervious to my distress on this, and think I am just a nag.

Moral support needed please!

Wow! you certainly have a lot on your hands! I have 3 children and a full time job, but I wouldn't take on any extra unpaid work! First, would it be possible to liberate some more time by giving up one of your activities. Not the hour to yourself singing of course! but the PTA? Aren't there any mums who don't work outside the home who might have more time than you've got?

Re housework: there are certain jobs that get done every day in our house. (everything else is left for weekends!) This includes : last thing at night, wiping the basin and the loo (different cloths of course! each one kept just next to where it's needed, and the cleaner too). I don't give the loo a full clean with harpic, and I tell myself this is because of the environment - I don't want to put all those noxious chemicals in our water every day! In the morning, wash up the supper things, wipe the work tops and sweep the kitchen floor (if time).
Dirty clothes aren't such a problem; it's so quick to just sling them in the washing machine. What takes time is sorting, hanging, folding and putting away the clean ones. So, eliminate ironing, and folding too if you haven't time. Just put them into drawers! Or buy 3 large plastic boxes, one for each child, and put the clothes in them. A bit of sorting is worthwhile because it saves time later on when you go to get the clothes out. Have a separate box for socks for all the children together.
Toys - put most of them away. Have one large plastic box in the sitting room, with one set of toys in, and insist your children put them back in said box when they've finished with them. You can rotate them at weekends when you've got a bit of time.
Mess - you just can't let up on this one! It's an ongoing battle. A last resort is just to put everything out of sight upstairs and sort it at weekends. At least the sitting room's tidy!

You don't mention family secretarial work like paying bills, food shopping etc but I bet a fair bit of your time goes on that as well. Would your husband consider taking on more?

Re Easter, I thought Tigermoth's strategy for planning weekends in the Losing Control board was a pretty good one. And who was it said that mess can't get any worse while you're out enjoying yourself a bit? I thought that was sheer brilliance!
If it makes you feel any better, there are so many of us in this situation. The most super organised person in my office confessed once that she spends all weekend preparing for Monday morning. Hope you have a happy Easter and the housework gets a bit less of a drag one way or the other.

Copper, keep the singing at all costs. I gave mine up for similar reasons (and how ashamed I feel of myself when I compare our workloads) and I miss it so much. Are the children all school age yet? Then chuck the PTA and let some other sucker have a go (I speak as a recent refugee from the tentacles of our PCC - imagine Vicar of Dibley, but not remotely amusing). Have a rethink on whether you can afford a cleaner: I said the same for several months and then decided to scrap my treat lunches from M & S in favour of sandwiches from home, and use the money to pay for a cleaner. There is really nothing like coming home at the end of a long day with your toddler chirping away in his pushchair to find the whole house hoovered and dusted. Even five consecutive days of my husband's droopy marmite sandwiches is a price worth paying.
Take Tigermoth's advice to heart - get out and about with the three of them this Easter and shut the door on the chaos.
As for moral support, have a good look at your three children and take five minutes to focus on all the good things about them (I'm sure this was posted somewhere on here recently and it made me think). You did all of that, and you have a job outside the home, and you have an interest that is life-enhancing, and you work unpaid for the better good of the community. You deserve a medal and an all-expenses-paid weekend away at a luxury hotel. You sound like you're doing a fantastic job to me.

Sml, I think we've hit on the same routine, it's rather uncanny! Although I'm pretty impressed by your cloth/basin/loo arrangement and intend to copy it.

Copper, I too would think about cutting down the PTA involvement, but if you like it, that may not be the answer. The trick is to eliminate the things that really make you stressed and nothing else.

Like you, I have a full-time job and in my case, just the two children to come home to. The toddler, when he's around, makes so many jobs cry-makingly stressful to do, like cleaning with bleach, hoovering, and sweeping the kitchen floor. And then when he's in bed, I don't hoover too near his room in case he wakes up. Consquently his patch of stairway and hall carpet has a grey layer of grit. It realy upsets me just to think about it.

As for ironing, only for weddings and funerals in our house. I don't even have an ironing board. All clothes bought on the asumption that they can just be washed folded and/or hung up.

Also hide everything you can away in drawers, boxes and cupboards. And fill shelves with boxes of things, too. Display as little as possible. It just gathers dust.

I've always been a very reluctant cook. Since the second son was born, very quick or ready-meals rule during the week. I'd rather have a less-hurried bedtime routine with my children and then catch up on some basic housework while something cooks in the oven. Anything that involves standing by the hob and stirring for long periods of time is avoided.

My husband says he helps 50/50...hmmmm. Sort of, something like that, possibly, I think. He does like cooking though. Unfortunately for me, both he and my older son love a clean tidy house. My son even checks that I will be tidying his room before his friends come round. This has got to stop! Lucky you for having a family with such a nice relaxed attitude to housework.

And then there's the cleaner conumdrum: getting the house clean enough to invite a cleaner round. Like you, I've never had one so perhaps I am worrying over nothing. I phoned up some agencies but they were so expensive. Silly question, but how can you get a trustworthy cleaner privately for the odd one-off? None of my local friends have them so they can't recomend anyone.

Copper I too will be catching up with everything at Easter.

.....And as Marina and SMl say, I will be taking my sons out lots this Easter, too. Otherwise, I'm fighting a losing battle: Sons inside = rising level of mess, no matter how much I rush round tidying and cleaning.

I kept checking the local post office/shop board for a cleaner and found one a month ago, brilliant! Seems that quite a lot of mums of older children are doing it to fit in with school hours and make good money. Molly Maids are quite a large franchise who do one-offs. Lots of places are advertising SPRING CLEANS at the mo, look in yellow pages. The weight that has been lifted off my shoulders since is unbelievable. It is a real treat, and Marinas comment about missing the M&S sandwiches to pay is great, you realise how much the little things like that add up - and what else you could do with the money.

Thank you, thank you - just the support I needed. I love working in the school, but the PTA is a bit of a pain - all too often I organize something, and then other people come in at the last moment and say they could have done it better!
As for dropping my standards, they dropped years ago! I think this may be part of teh problem - the restr of the family has got used to it. My kids are 12, 8 and 7 and I really thought by now that it would have got better - but they are just inured to a certain level of mess and don't worry about it. I've tried all the usual reward points, and linking it to pocket money - they are helpful for a day and then back to normal.

My husband is wonderful at childcare and has always shared it half and half - but he doesn't see housework as part of the job. His parents werre messy, he is messy, his (our I mean!) kids are messy - and I hate housework!

Many thanks again. Maybe once I have cleaned this Easter I will look at making packed lunches and getting a cleaner

Copper
I am soooo crap at housework!! I've never been able to understand how I can achieve so much at the office, yet put me in the middle of a messy living room and I could look at it for hours. My only (vague) solution is to buy lots of pretty baskets to 'hide' everything in. At least I get some king of satisfaction from throwing everything into them. Can identify entirely the shame re. cleaners...I can just picture my mother's disaproving look now. (But if I could find the money from somewhere I sure I could grow to live with it!) hope you enjoy your easter holiday anyway.

Oh I'm so glad I'm not the only one. Can identify with this totally. I thought about getting a cleaner recently but my mum and sister have one and they end up rushing around tidying up before they come! There definately are companies/people that do one offs, I saw them in Yellow Pages, but I find it's not the dusting and hoovering (or should I starting a new trend and say dysoning) the problem but it's the endless amount of clothes piles. Hubby leaving his pants on the floor doesn't help either - even right next to the laundry basket! What are they like!!

I usually to the hoovering when the floor starts to look like confetti, do the ironing/sorting when I can no longer hide it behind the sofa. I'm sooooo glad others don't DO ironing. I actually started doing ironing again after a 8 year break. My sister started it, she said where she was living at the time, didn't have enough room for a basket so put everying away and ironed it when she needed it. So I did the same but went the whole hog and didn't bother ironing it!

As I speak there is stuff everywhere, went to Ikea yesterday and as usual come back with a boot load of stuff and takes ages to put everything away and get rid of boxes! Hubby works from home too and there is huge amounts of his stuff.

Going out is something, frequently done here as well to get away from the mess. I say don't worry anymore we are fighting a losing battle!!

The "housewife" bit isn't a job, and even if it was it certainly isn't just YOUR job, there are other people who live in your house.

I know you said hubby doesn't see it as a problem, but either your house is messy or it isn't. If it is, tell him to do his share.

Tell the children to tidy up after themselves. They seem to be following your hubby's example and not yours.

Alot of women won't work at all, because of what is called the "double burden" ie other members of the house won't help around the house. I found that very often (even though we did share everything, as it should be) it was just me getting wound up. The world isn't going to end because the ironing didn't get done exactly at the time I wanted my partner to do it (he ironed, and did the washing and DIY, I did everything else just about) very often it is just US putting pressure on ourselves.

I don't think this is a male/female issue either as some seem to think it is. My sister is totally untidy compared to her partner and it drives him up the wall!

Thought I'd just add my experience of getting a cleaner since I started back at work (one baby, she's seven months). It is WONDERFUL! We've already decided on half a dozen other things that we would give up to keep affording her. I do get slightly stressed by the rushing round to tidy up for her on Wednesday evenings but all that involves really is flinging things into baskets/cupboards so that all the carpet and surfaces are free for her to clean. I went through an agency - big advantage is you can change your cleaner if you want to without having to give reasons, and if the cleaner leaves, they'll have someone else round the next week. Mine's a small agency so don't employ the cleaners direct (you just pay a subscription) -means the rates are the same as if you had a private arrangement. I actually tried three people before I got someone I was happy with (loads of common sense and an incredibly knack, way better than me, to make a messy room look tidy - even the bed is neater than when I make it).

In short, if you can find the right person, it's great and means on my Fridays off (I work 4 days) I am enjoying my daughter rather than feeling guilty about the house.

It is so refreshing to read other people being honest about housework and other mundane daily tasks. The thing which really gets to me is the constant washing. I have 2 children(4mths and 4 yrs)and a husband, who would do the housework if only he had the time...ha ha.It is a battle to keep it done.One stradegy I worked out recently was to give myself at least one day off a week,even if it means 3 loads the next day it is worth it.I have a cleaner who is great and I would rather go without chocolate for a month than risk losing her.Money is tight but both me and my husband can see how vital it is to have some help around the house, I know the hoovering is done at least once a week.I recently moved the sofa in the front room so that it now faces away from all the toys/computer/table so now I don't have to sit and look at all the mess at night if it has'nt been tidied,a marvellous solution,it really works.Good luck Copper,have a good holiday.

Hi Copper - just wanted to say I'm full of admiration for you - just reading your message and hearing about what you have to do makes me feel worn out!
The messages you've been given so far have been great, so practical and supportive. I just wanted to add - have you heard about/thought of life coaching? Basically a life coach helps you improve & sort out your life, prioritise, reach your goals etc. Talking to an objective outsider can help clarify a sutuation that seems to be swamping you when you're dealing with it by yourself. You can find out more from www.lifecoachingacademy.com
I'm recommending it because I've been coached and found that it has really helped me sort my life out very quickly. I'm also now about halfway through training to become a coach, so if the cost is offputting then get in touch because I'm coaching people for free whilst I'm training (this goes out to anybody else out there who feels they might benefit). You can reach me on [email protected]

Have a great easter - don't work too hard

Joanne

Quentin Crisp said "After the first two years the dust doesn't get any thicker".
Perhaps he is right, sometimes it feels like I'm trying to test his theory out. Life is too short to dust all the time, why beat ourselves up about the dust etc when there are so many good things to do instead.

My neighbour says that dust is the house's face powder!

I know exactly how you feel! I have 4 children, a full time job and am in the process of divorcing. You sound as if you are extremely brave to be doing all the things you are doing! I barely manage to cope. My house work never seems to get done, but I have tried "hiding" the clean washing in my bedroom until I get round to tackling it- or else it ends up "decorating" the living room. I get the children to tidy away their own toys in the living room by brandishing a large bin bag with the threat of throwing away anything which is left on the floor and I get the 3 oldest children (ages 8, 6 and 4- the youngest is 2)to do small chores to "help Mummy" by explaining that the more they help me, the more time I have to play with them. Occasionally small bribes are very useful.

Could your husband be persuaded to help out a little more? Or perhaps he could look after the children on a Saturday morning so that you can catch up on some sleep.

You are not a nag, it is not surprising that you are exhausted! You are just doing too much and quite frankly deserve a medal for all your hard work.

I'm with everyone else... get the cleaner - even two hours a week would mean that the loos and bathroom are done and parts of the house would get done in rotation - it really is worth it and if you're anything like me you can live with untidiness, it's dirt you're not keen on. My other tip is give up cooking at weekends. It was my new year's resolution and of course you can't always stick to it - but it's transformed my life. We do eat - we just don't eat anything elaborate and I mean really basic, bread and cheese, beans, pasta and jar sauce. I just find it takes the pressure off and leaves more time to actually do things together.

I think that part of the trouble is that people get set in their roles in a family very early on. All parents with charming little babies - watch out for this - start them off on chores young!

My husband thinks he does an awful lot - and he does do a lot of childcare. He just doesn't see the need for housework, doesn't mind the dust, the dirt, the grease, the grime. Maybe I should just lower my standards to his, and not care myself - the trouble is that I think that my standards are probably as low as they can acceptably get - or way way lower in the case of many of my friends. Floors in our house are just covered with the evidence of what people were doing days or even weeks ago. Maybe also part of the trouble is having too much in the way of toys - tidying up isn't easy when there are so many bits all over the place.

I've tried many of the suggested ideas for getting the kids to clean up - the bin liner being my favourite as a last resort. I am now trying to play on their greed and passion for new toys. They have to sort out over Easter what they are prepared to get rid of, we sell it at a car boot sale, and they get to keep the money. I also introduced the idea that they had too many toys and that, from now on, no new toy could enter the house unless an old one was discarded. To my amazement they like this - in principle. I can't see it working in practice, but let's wait and see. And then, in theory, it'll be just the few favourites spread over the house!

I can't tell you how much better I feel from all your responses: it's terribly easy to concentrate on your failings, and on how awful the kids can be, when in fact they are wonderful (if messy) and the joy of my life (most of the time).

Cl, I agree with your simple weekend food. Sunday night is freezer night and Saturday lunch is whoever is near a shop gets fresh bread. The time we all once had for cleaning is now spent tidying, by the time I've tidied ready for a clean, babe has woken up or something else happens. hence the wonderful addition in my life of cleaner as mentioned below. Mass tidy the night before and literally pile everything onto the beds the morning before she comes!

My main stress is THE WASHING, it never goes away, dirty piles, clean piles, dry piles, folded piles, piles en-route to bedrooms and something permanently in the washing machine!

Copper, I don't have a cleaner for financial reasons and like you I get overwhelmed by housework. You've got to tread a fine line between being relaxed about mess and filth and feeling unhappy because your home environment is stressing you out. You say your husband doesn't see the problem with the cleaning etc but there is a big problem here - namely your unhappiness -and that should concern him. You have a right to live in the sort of house that you want and if that's a cleaner, more tidy house then your husband should help you towards this goal. Tell your husband that you're both working parents and he needs to take a more structured approach to home life. Then work out how you can tackle the housework together. Suggest he takes responsibility for hoovering once a week and deep-cleaning the bathroom while you take on, say, the kitchen and the sitting room. If he complains that he doesn't have time to do this ask him to time himself doing the hoovering and he'll be suprised how little time it actually does take (it's the anticpation of doing it that's so unpalatable.) Get into a system for doing the laundry whereby one of you is putting on a load every day at the same time and work out when and how this load will be dried and put back in bedrooms. I dry everything I can on hangers and religiously do a wash every morning after breakfast, leave it to dry in the boiler room all day and take it upstairs when I go to bed. I put the clean stuff away in the morning and gather up a load of dirty stuff on my way to the kitchen in the morning. This way it becomes a no-brainer and doesn't eat into your time too much. My mother worked full-time and I'm scarred by the memory of her doing a week's worth of washing on a Sunday while my father swanned off to play badminton. I hope your husband irons his own shirts! You will run the risk of being called a nag/obsessive/uptight but just explain that you wouldn't be like this if you had more help. You will of course have to lavish praise on his 20 minutes of hoovering and thank him fifty times over to bolster up his ego. Some men have a problem about being asked to do something in the house and will take it as an accusation that they're savages or not house-trained. I hope it doesn't get that nasty but I've found reasoning with them "you expect clean towels/pants so you've got to help me" helps.
You're not being a nag and don't deny your feelings about the state of the house. I hope you have a great easter and if you decide to ask your husband to take a more active role in the house-keeping I hope he takes it in the right spirit.

I can tell you one other no-brainer (good phrase when it comes to washing!) and that's to have only 2 types of washing. Its either darks on at 40 degrees or lights on at 40 degrees. That's it. Lights includes sheets and towels. I find that you really don't need any other settings its the powder that does the work. I mean who uses 90 degrees for god's sake??

Lil, we have 3 types of washing - pale cotton (hot), coloured cotton (cooler) and polys. Admittedly the distinction between coloured cotton and polys is a bit blurred as our machine washes them both at 60 - I assume the cottons get longer. Precious lambswool jerseys get the odd wool wash. This system works because there's soooo much laundry in our house that there's usually a full wash of any of the 3 categories at any given time.
What Ems says about laundry piles is so true - and I thought it was just our house! The washing machine is my absolute must-have piece of equipment - I'd rather give up the car or the hoover, even the fridge would go before the washing machine!!

Yes, that's a thought, the washing machine really is the most time-saving advance. i guess before it, people had less clothes or else how on earth could you find time to do anything else other than wash clothes. I think our children have more of our time than they used to in the 'old days'. We would all have been too busy doing cooking and cleaning to play with them. And I bet we wouldn't have felt guilty about it either!

Yes, hats off to our washing machine! Regarding piles of washing, this is my imperfect method of coping:

2 baskets near the machine. One for clean stuff,the other for dirty stuff. I do about 5 washes a week. As the clean stuff basket fills, I constanty skim off and sort piles of it according to room destination, as and when I'm passing eg: pile for older son's room, pile for bathroom. Whenever I leave the utility room to go upstairs, I take a pile/s with me. Never leave empty handed. Sometimes the stairs are festooned with piles of clothing on the way up, but every time I go upstairs to the appropriate room I take a pile with me.

I arrived at this method after being given a tip: Never leave a room without taking something with you. I've found this low-key tidying rather addictive, though it does tend to replace regular big blitzes. At least it means that the mess in our house is kept down to a just-acceptable level without me feeling that my time is being swalowed up with tidying.