Childcare vouchers and maternity leave - we've gotta fight for our rights!!

[ceebee74]

This is a spin off from an ante-natal thread but feel free to join in if you are in this situation - there are currently 3 of us trying to get to the bottom of the new legislation that has just come in.

Vbab&Sparkle - what I meant by 'paying twice' may not affect you if you just receive statutory maternity pay whilst on mat leave - but my employer has quite a generous scheme so I get 8 weeks at full pay, 18 weeks at half pay plus SMP and the final 13 weeks at SMP only - so they can still deduct the vouchers for the first 26 weeks of my mat leave as I am receiving something other than SMP.

However the amount of my maternity pay is calculated on the average I earned during 17-25th weeks of pg so, if I had still taken the vouchers during those weeks, my salary would have been lower (as it would have been on an amount with the vouchers deducted) therefore my mat pay would be based on the lower amount and then during my mat leave, as I receive Occupational Maternity Pay, they would also have deducted the £243 vouchers aswell - so technically I would have paid twice for them - does that make sense?

It doesn't really affect you if you only receive SMP apart from the first 6 weeks.

Anyway, going to work out the figures now as I do think, if it is right that you can't have it both ways, I have picked the best option for me.

But, when I cancelled my vouchers in July, the woman at our voucher provider knew it was so my pay would not be affected and she confirmed I could restart them in September so I am a bit confused about this stopping and restarting business. Will try and find out more.

I've just seen this and am confused too!

I came back to work in September after mat leave and a 6 month career break, and started getting the full amount of vouchers. I was actually pregnant when I started work, and because of the career break I probably won't qualify for contractual or statutory mat pay (didn't plan that one very well!) but I am entitled to the appropriate leave. I will qualify for mat allowance though - am I right in thinking that the salary scarifice thing won't actually affect my MA claim, so I shouldn't need to stop my vouchers at all? And would my 'salary sacrifice' continue when I'm on mat leave, even though there's no salary or SMP to sacrifice? Would like to think I was getting something!

Interesting, and complicated.

Not sure about the MA bit but the new rule says that employers cannot deduct salary sacrifice from your Maternity pay. They can for the 90% enlement in the first six weeks and any extra that they pay on top but they cannot deduct from the SMP bit about £112 a week. Also they must not stop your benefits and therefore they must fund your childcare vouchers while you have no salry to pay for them. I think MA has to be sclaimed direct from the state so obviously they couldn't deduct the salary sacrifice from there either. So technically you could get something for nothing unless like my employer they are going to "bill" me at the end when I return to work.

Thanks firsttimemama, that was my initial interpretation too but I wanted confirmation! Don't know if my workplace woujld bill me at the end - but it's public sector and they tend not to do things like that (though wouldn't rule it out!)

Bumping to see if anyone else has heard that their employer is going to bill them at the end of maternity leave for the childcare they have paid for whilst you had no earnings.

Please can someone advise me

I work for NHS, so get 8 weeks full pay, 18 weeks half plus smp, then 13 weeks smp. I started the vouchers in aug 08, and was preg with number 2. I said I wanted to end the vouchers in mar 09 due to changing circumstances.

I phoned HR last week and they told me that all of my mat pay would be calculated on what I was earning 15 weeks before my due date.(only 8 weeks away) Which means my mat pay will be reduced by the salary sacrifice, even though I have opted out of the scheme. Basically they didnt spell it out about the calculation of SMP, and I didnt understand

Is there anyway around this. I did tell the HR person in Aug that I was preg again, so should she not have warned me? Also the paperwork I signed has this in the small print, so last week when I queried it, the HR person pointed me to this and said it has caught a lot of people out.

Surely HR in the NHS should be helping and not catching people out!!!

Any advice is welcome

Thank you ladies. I had no idea about this and was frankly astounded that my employer would have to pay an additional £3k to keep DD1 in nursery whilst I am off with DC2!

As unfair as the scheme sounds, my own research satisfies me that I should not stop my vouchers (to retain eligibility) and should expect my employer to pay for the vouchers on top of my SMP when that kicks in after 14 weeks full pay.

Another link for you, which is a bit 'legal' but quite concise.

www.clydeco.com/knowledge/articles/the-hidden-cost-of-childcare.cfm

not sure if this is the best place to post but my employer is now "reviewing participation" in the childcare voucher scheme because of the increased cost to them of the new rules re mat leave. As I am currently pregnant I'm wondering whether they can stop me claiming what I am due according to the letter of the regs?? They have given no timescale for the "review" buit it sounds like they want to withdraw the scheme totally

Have just come back to this thread - didn't realise it was still ongoing!

Mrspotatochip there will be something in the paperwork you signed to say that the employer can stop the scheme - probably giving some notice - so unfortunately if your employer does decide to stop the scheme, they can do.

AM just looking into the issue whether an employer can make you repay the vouchers when you return to work - apparently my boss has accepted he has to pay me the vouchers but is now asking the firm's solicitors to look into whether he can reclaim it on my return. I am fairly certain I read somewhere that this is still discriminatory but I can't remember where I read this so am going to do some digging.... I will report back once I have that info.

I am joining this discussion very late in the day, but have only just discovered this....

Ceebee74 I assume you work for the NHS...as do I. I did stop my vouchers for 2 months between weeks 17-25 (I only work 30 hours a week anyway) and re-started in Nov (baby due in 2 weeks) and now have an open-ended order with busybees. They rung me last week and asked if I wanted to continue getting vouchers as "they'd heard I was on mat leave and could I still afford them" ....I told them yes I did, and how I pay for them is my business, not theirs....and then I found the new information.

I have a couple of questions for you if you don't mind, just so I can be one step ahead so to speak......

I will be working my 10 KIT days throughout mat leave from home, and I claim the payment for them via a time sheet, and I have bunched them up so I get extra money during the 27-39 period (ie when on SMP only)...presumably, I don't want to do this as they could use this salary to sacrifice for my vouchers? Is that right?

Do they HAVE to do this for me? ie....do I really put up a fight about it?

Have I invalidated my claim by cancelling vouchers in weeks 17-25....thats how I understand it from what I've read...

Sorry to be a pain....its very confusing but I really want to get my facts straight before I ring HR

TIA

littlemissnorty hi!

Yes I do work for the NHS aswell. Your HR department should already be aware of the new legislation and the impact it has - and yes they have to do it otherwise they could be subject to a discrimination claim. However, I do believe that if you stopped your vouchers during the qualifying period, then you cannot then get the 'free' vouchers aswell - a bit like having your cake and eating it!

I was in the same position but as my qualifying period was just before the legislation came out, I had already stopped my vouchers so I think they see that as the exception as I did what was best for me at the time without full knowledge of the impact iyswim.

You are also correct about your KIT days - if you are paid for them during weeks 27-39, it will be classed as salary above SMp therefore the vouchers will be deductible from it.

Thanks so much.....will ring HR and see if I get anywhere. I stopped my vouchers for 8 weeks on the advice of BusyBees so will take my argument up with them if my employers do play ball .

Thought so about KIT days...I shall claim for them a bit earlier then....

Thanks again

LMN, I took the advice from this thread and stopped my vouchers for 8 weeks during the qualifying weeks too. Still, I received a written confirmation from the HR just now saying that I'm required to pay normally for the vouchers during the enhanced maternity pay but keep receiving them for the remaining of the 39 weeks without actually paying for them. It took them ages to figure this out with the tax man and lawyers so sounds like this is really what the law says. Fantastic!

Hopefully in a longer term they do not decide to stop providing us with the vouchers though..

Ceebee74 did you find anything out about being made to repay the childcare costs when you return to work and are in reciept of a salary again? I don't work for the NHS but I do work for a major bank and therefore I'm presuming that they have the right to this?

Firsttimemama, I work in finance and am pretty sure they cannot. I'm sure my employer would have done that if they could have

I've had a bit of a set back from my Trust today telling me that I must have my maternity pay spread over the 39 weeks in equal instalments and salary sacrifice my vouchers as normal during weeks 27-39. I am furious about this and have told them to put it in writing so I can seek advice, when the person got really shitty with me.

CeeBee.....what was your Trusts position on all this? surely the NHS should have a NHS wide policy?

LMN am by that - I honestly don't think they can do that. It clearly states in AFC terms and conditions what the maternity pay is and I am sure they can't just change how it is paid. I am not sure legally where they stand but it is completely unethical - I would definitely seek further advice about that.

Firsttime I haven't had a chance to look it up yet - been a bit busy but will let you know as soon as I can

CeeBee....their argument was that its not the childcare voucher that I am entitled to but the tax relief on the childcare that I purchase; and by splitting my pay equally over 39 weeks, I would have the funds in place to buy the voucher and therefore not lose my tax relief.

Unfortunately, I appear to have shot myself in the foot, as when I originally sent in my mat leave application form and MATB1 (long before I knew anything about any of this), I requested the maternity pay be paid in equal instalments. I asked for this in my last pg as well, and they didn't/couldn't manage it, but on receiving my payslip this month, it would appear that they have this time (TYPICAL)....so I can't really complain now

However, I appear to have a busybee voucher in my e-account this month and they haven't deducted my salary .

I'm really pissed off about all of this, but as a line manager, when my team go off on mat leave, I will make sure they get what they are entitled to. No-one can MAKE you split you mat pay equally.

A bit of an update......I've had a call to say my query "has been escalated to senior management and therefore I can't have anything in writing just yet"......

Can you believe this is obviously the first my Trust have heard of this?

Hi i am 17 wks pregnant and was advised by Busy Bees to cancel 17-25 weeks then re-start. Having now looked into it it sounds like this may not be the best option.
From what i have gleaned (and this is for my circumstance only) i will get 90% of my earings for the first 6 weeks in line with SMP pay rules then the new amount of £120 ish up to 39 weeks in total.
From what i have read regarding the Childcare vouchers they still have to be provided by my employer regardless as the £243 cannot be sacrificed from my SMP so in effect they will have to foot the bill.
Does that sound right - the whole thing seems to be a bit of a grey area. Also can the decide to withdraw the scheme if i plan to do this or would this be seen as discrimination - v.confused !

Hello, this is my first post on here, but have been watching this thread and it has been very helpful. I have been doing quite a lot of research on the issue of salary sacrifice and childcare vouchers, and thought I would add what I have found out in case it helps anyone else.

As far as I can work out it was changes to the Sex Discrimination Act with effect for babies due on or after 5th Oct 2008 that makes it discriminatory to withdraw 'non-cash benefits' from women on maternity leave. Childcare vouchers are deemed to be non-cash benefits, and as such women on maternity leave are entitled to them for the duration of their leave, including when they are in receipt of SMP only (this cannot be sacrificed for vouchers), or no salary at all.

The most useful legal support I can find to explain this is a document called 'Salary Sacrifice and Non-Cash Benefits on the Gov. site www.hmrc.gov.uk/sml-salary-sacrifice.pdf It is quite detailed and gives a number of examples, and I have quoted parts of it in my letter asking my employer about continuing to receive the vouchers. At present my employer is saying that I 'purchase' the vouchers from them through salary sacrifice, and therefore am not eligible to continue to receive them once I am no longer in receipt of deductible pay. However the gov. document explains that this is a misunderstanding of salary sacrifice, and that the idea of salary sacrifice is not a legal term but once of convenience for common discussion.

At the end of the gov. document it recommends contacting ACAS for further information. I have done this, and they looked into it and called me back. Their present advice (acknowledging that it is new legislation that has not yet been tested)is that my understanding as summarised above is correct, and I should write to my employer explaining this.

On the matter of whether an employer can deduct pay after her maternity leave to cover the cost of the childcare vouchers the gov. document says on page 22, "It may be discriminatory for a woman's pay to be reduced after her maternity leave as a direct result of her employer providing contractual non-cash benefits during her statutory maternity leave." So that
question is left slightly open it would seem.

I hope this is helpful. I am due to give birth next week, so not sure when I'll next be online!

Hi, I read this with interest. Am on mat leave atm since sept 2008, cancelled my childcare vouchers in Jul 2008, my employer never advised me that if I had not cancelled them that I would still be entitled to them, I use to get £243 per month and I am angry taht I have lost out on these vouchers. can anyone advise whether it was discrimaination that they did not give me any advice about this. Cheers

Beetlemum I think we already had this discussion on the other thread didn't we?

You said you stopped the vouchers as you wouldn't need them. If you ask your employer to stop them, it's not their job to persuade you to change your mind, or advise you what will happen if you keep them. If you went to your employer and asked what happens to vouchers during maternity leave, and then cancelled them because your employer gave you false information, then that's different, but if you just tell your employer to stop them then that's what they should do.

Thanks again flowery. I'm still grr at this though can you tell . Still waiting for works response on my bank hols entitlement

There is not yet any case law on this issue but the most up to date advice from ACCOR who are the leading provider of childcare vouchers in the UK is this:

Vouchers must be paid through-out the full period of second or subsequent pregnancies maternity leave, provided the employee was in receipt of the vouchers during the qualifying period, which is incidently the same period on which your SMP will be calculated. The amount paid during your Mat leave is also the same as that amount you receive in vouchers during the Q period. Therefore you can't claim £50 per month in the q period and then increase to £243 just before going off on mat leave.

I have read all of this thread with interest, my DS goes to nursery for 2 days a week and i was about to join up to the voucher scheme when i realised i was pregnant again so didn't.

So from what i've read from this thread i'm thinking i could sign up to the voucher scheme as long as it is after i'm 25 weeks pregnant? This would then mean it wouldn't reduce my maternity pay?

Please help me i have a simple brain