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Turned down for flexible working :-(

63 replies

CountessDracula · 16/02/2005 13:58

I am seriously pissed off. Not sure whether the reasons they are giving are valid, I have not actually been turned down yet but I know it is going to happen after today's meeting.

Anyone eg employment lawyer or similar with experience who I could CAT for a bit of advice? I suspect I don't have a leg to stand on but it seems very unfair.

TIA

OP posts:
NameChangingMancMidlander · 16/02/2005 14:20
Grin
northerner · 16/02/2005 14:21

Well with an offer like that I wouldn't think twice about leaving.

Does that mean no more business trips to sunny Harrogate?

CountessDracula · 16/02/2005 14:22

Hopefully!

OP posts:
northerner · 16/02/2005 14:23
Grin
CountessDracula · 16/02/2005 14:45

right have employment lawyer mate of dh's calling me this pm

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CountessDracula · 16/02/2005 14:50

Dh is in my good books now, he said that it was my own fault as I was just so brilliant and irreplacable

Hmm, wonder what he's after?!?!?!

OP posts:
sis · 16/02/2005 18:04

CD, I have replied to your message.

beansprout · 16/02/2005 18:09

Rats - sorry to hear this CD. Am about to go into work and ask for similar myself. Hope you get something sorted.

OldieMum · 16/02/2005 20:23

CD - I had a big battle with my boss over flexible working., though not over the same issues. He agreed in principle but then dreamt up some ridiculous conditions that were unacceptable. Fortunately for me, I belong to a Union and the rep discussed my case with HR. They told the rep that my boss was going against their policies on flexible working and he had to back down. Before this was resolved, the rep approached the EOC and they seemed eager to take up what they saw as a test case. So you might, at least, be able to get some advice from them. I have since seen in the press that the large majority of requests for flexible working are accepted by employers, so I would not take this lying down, if I were you.

LunarSea · 17/02/2005 09:30

The majority of requests may be accepted - but that depends upon what exactly is meant by requests accepted (and I suspect anyway that a lot of people don't actually make the formal application if they are told in advance that it's not likely to be granted)...

When I originally asked for flexible working I proposed to start an hour earlier for 4 days a week, and to work a shorter day from home on the 5th day each week, but offering the flexibility to juggle this slightly within any particular week should the business require it - so no reduction in hours, and no impact on productivity, etc.

What I got offered was "flexible" working which (quote) "would allow me time to get my shopping done during the day" - of split shifts (3 x 2.5 hours/day, with a 2 hour gap between each, and based 5 days a week at an office which was a 5 hour round trip from home on a good day. Oh, and the start time was before the first train of the day could get me there, even if it was on time, and the proposed finish time left me with a 45 minute wait for a train home.

They obviously knew it would be unacceptable, but for the pupose of figures it was considered that they had offered flexible working, so there was no appeal against it, and no chance to reapply for a year.

On a more positive note, after a long battle I eventually managed to get my role moved to a different reporting structure, where work-life balance is actually a consideration, and I do now have the working pattern I was originally asking for, although it's still only a verbal agreement at this stage, not a formally accepted arrangement. Not ideal, but after a while I believe it would be considered part of t's&c's by custom and practice, and I don't think it will be opposed if and when I do make an application to formalise it.

Uwila · 17/02/2005 09:53

CD- are you going to file an appeal? I assume your company gave you the PL 520 book when you submitted your Flexible Working Application Form. I think you have 14 days to appeal once they actually decline the request. Also, they have to outline the appeal process when they decline the request.

Assume you know all of this?

I don't have a lot of loyalty to companies who can't bother to accommodate reasonable requests for employees. You should do what's best for you and your daughter, of course. When push comes to shove, the company will do what is best for them. I used to be a VERY loyal employee. Then one day I was made redundant and I completely changed my view. I am now exactly as loyal to them as they are to me.

CountessDracula · 17/02/2005 14:21

Apparantly there is no appeal by right except if they have not followed procedure (which they have I think - do they have to give me this booklet? If so maybe I have some recourse. They gave me the company's flex working application policy)

Apparantly there is nothing I can do except do them for indirect sex discrimination (I would leave before bringing a trumped up charge like that!)

They have been very very good to me in the past Uwila eg payed me for 4 months on full pay when I had glandular fever, allowed me much more maternity leave than I was entitled to after getting preg in my 3 month notice period and arriving 2 months preg etc! However I take your point and I am not going to be loyal to them if they are out to screw me on this.

thanks everyone as usual you have been fab

OP posts:
PiccadillyCircus · 17/02/2005 14:36

I think you can appeal to them if the decision doesn't go in your favour, whether or not they have done things "properly". There are things on the tiger website.

And you do have the right to appeal - see here .

I agfree that flexible working applying is a pain, especially as you have informal discussions with them and so you know what they think, they know what you think and you feel awkward.

I did manage to do it and am pleased I stuck to my argument.

Uwila · 17/02/2005 14:48

PL 520 Flexible Working: The right to request and the duty to consider

Uwila · 17/02/2005 14:53

I think you may find p. 22 a good place to start in the book / link I just posted. Within 14 days of your meeting (which I believe you have already had) your employer must inform you of the decision in writing. If rejected, they must:
1- state the business grounds for rejection
2- Provide sufficient explanation...
3- PRovide details of your right to appeal
4- The date

If your appeal is unsuccesssful, then I think (not sure though) that you have to wait one year before submitting another request.

Uwila · 17/02/2005 14:56

Also, what form did complete when making your request? I was handed this DTI booklet with a form to complete which is titled Form FW(A): Flexible Working Application Form.

amynnixmum · 17/02/2005 14:59

CD - have not read all the posts but my sis is going through this very thing right now and is really well read up on all the legalities etc. Can call her if you like and see if she can give you some advice via email.

CountessDracula · 17/02/2005 15:14

Thank you I may take you up on that.

Uwila I have checked and they have followed procs.

I have the decision meeting tomorrow. I think I have come up with some pretty good counter-arguments to their points, have just sent them off with a pathetic bleaty bit at the end about how I was so unhappy missing out on my dd growing up so hopefully they will not be total *&^ts about it.

They are both parents ffs!!

OP posts:
amynnixmum · 17/02/2005 15:17

Just spoke to sis and she says she is happy to give you advice. If you want to chat to her then CAT me and I will send you her email address.

Uwila · 17/02/2005 15:19

ok, just trying to help. I know we don't usually (ever, actually) see eye to eye. More like scalp to big toe. But, I wanted to help if I could.

Good luck!

CountessDracula · 17/02/2005 15:23

Thanks Uwila, don't think I don't appreciate it! Sorry if I was a little short, am horribly busy.

ammynixmum thanks, I may just wait and see what happens and then appeal it if it doesn't go my way. If so I will defo CAT you.

OP posts:
CountessDracula · 17/02/2005 15:24

LOL @ scalp to big toe!

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CountessDracula · 18/02/2005 09:26

Well big developments

Got dragged into an office for a "conversation that never happened" at 5.30pm yesterday.

Have agreed to be poached by company am on secondment to, have a meeting to finalise T&Cs but essentially will mean I can work 4 days a week and earn more than I did working 5 at other place! Plus will be based in the City perm, instead of going back to travelling about all over the place which I HATED.

So will call my boss, withdraw flex working application and hand in my notice. Am hoping for gardening leave so can doss around for a bit but suspect it won't happen!

Wish me luck!

OP posts:
nasa · 18/02/2005 09:27

good luck , excellent news

Marina · 18/02/2005 09:29

Good luck. I cannot believe the dimness of your home co in not seeing this one coming, FGS. Fancy letting you loose on secondment to begin with! Best of British.

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