Formal meeting - off work with depression

[Pippalove82]

I’m currently off work with depression and have been signed off by my GP for another two weeks. I’m on antidepressants, sleeping tablets and waiting for CBT, and honestly I’m struggling to function day to day at the moment.

My employer has asked me to attend a formal absence meeting and I’ve been told the outcome could be either a written warning or a referral to Occupational Health. I’m really worried about getting a warning as my absence is due to ill health and not something I can control.

A few years ago I had a long period of sickness absence after being hospitalised with a serious illness. When I returned, I still needed occasional time off because of ongoing side effects, and Occupational Health said my health issues would likely amount to a disability. Following this some adjustments were made to help me.

Has anyone been in a similar situation? What happened, and is it normal for employers to consider a warning when someone is signed off sick by their GP? I’m finding it really stressful and scary on top of how I’m already feeling.

Yes, it can be very distressing for people who truly are too sick to work.

But I suppose from the company's POV, if they've put reasonable adjustments in place and the employee still cannot do their job, something has to give as they can't keep paying them indefinitely.

It absolutely sucks though for people like the OP.

The OP has read the policy.

"I have looked at the absence policy and it says they can have meetings if certain triggers are hit but this will all depend on the reason your off etc so it sounds discretionary on a case by case basis."

Thanks so much for your reply.
i think after looking it up that’s essentially what they are doing. Maybe I’m thinking the worst as I have an habit of doing that and I won’t get a written warning but I have a feeling i might because this is the second long term sick I've had to take. I think in some ways they are corrected as my mental health has slowly got worse since I was ill and ive been back and fourth from the hospital with ongoing issues.

You sound like a great manager.
I get on well with HR and my manager and I don’t blame them at all, I know they are just following procedure but I can’t help but feel it’s added extra stress which I didn’t need especially after another night of no sleep.

I have actually said this to them. I said regardless of how I feel after the sick note ends, I feel that I’m going to be forced back into work as I can’t afford to loose my job

Thanks so much for your kind message.
its not my job that’s the issue, I do enjoy my job when im well, its my mental state at the moment and the lack of sleep. I have suffered with mental health since being ill a few years ago but its never been this bad and I have a lot going on in my person life that’s probably made a bad situation worse.

I know they have talked about a phased return which I am grateful for and will help me settle back in without overwhelming me.

yes I do think so, I’m only on week 4 of increased dose of antidepressants but I’ve been told it can take 4/6 weeks to adjust so I’m hoping that will help in time and when I start CBT.

I haven’t been finding any joy in the things i normally do but have been reading here and there which sometimes helps. My mom has suggested going out tomorrow to get me out the house. I do want to start going on walks as I find that helps but last few weeks the weather has just been too hot.

As long as it’s documented in their policies (and those policies comply with the law!) they can invite you to these meetings. You can of course be too unwell to attend but my previous employer would have expected managers to continue the process regardless and in the case of capability being too unwell to attend the meeting would have been documented as evidence to support the person not being capable of fulfilling the role. Managers were unofficially KPI’d on team absence records, an employee on long term sick (over 6 months) with no definite route to return usually meant the writing was on the wall for the manager!

Probably just seeing if you are ever going to be capable of doing the job they pay you to do.

Your employer sounds like they are correctly following their absence management process. It doesn’t necessarily mean they think you’ve done something wrong.

Sickness absence is usually about capability and support rather than misconduct.

This can ultimately lead to dismissal on capability grounds if there is no realistic prospect of a return within a reasonable timeframe. But a good employer will try and help you avoid this. It’s essential that due process is followed here.

Although it can be difficult for you as the employee, it’s a structured process and is usually better than being left in limbo for months when you’re off and then suddenly being dismissed.

That does sound really harsh. I’ve been off for three years with no consequences so far

Really? I’d have been sacked at my previous employer for allowing your situation to go past 12 months!
What public sector organisation do you work for?!

You can always join a general union op.

Really? I’m a manager as you’d be so long gone if you worked for my organisation. After 6 months you’d be managed out if there was no end in sight.

multi national private sector company. I don’t think HR realise that I am MIA

Either you're very lucky or joking?

You are unwell and your GP has signed you off worked so you are equally too unwell to attend any kind of work related meeting.

On top of that you have a condition which OH previously confirmed is a disability.

So frankly your employer is being silly to threaten you with a 'written warning'. A written warning for what exactly? being unwell?

I would simply email HR and remind them that you are signed off for another two weeks and that you are not well enough to attend any meetings. I would also add something about your manage/the organisation making your recovery harder by contacting you and is adding to your distress.

I was off for 2.5 months after I had a completely breakdown. I was under the care of the crisis team and frankly my mind was gone and I could not even concentrate more than a few minutes and could barely function physically. It took a few weeks for medication to start working and for the Crisis Team to get me out of a very darl hole. The point is there is no way I would have been able to attend any kind of meeting or have a rational conversation with work while I was on sick leave. Instead a back to work meeting was arranged on my first day back and we also agreed on a referral to OH at that meeting.

Ultimately employers can dismiss you if you are unable to fulfill your job/are on long term sick leave but they should follow the proper procedure and not harass sick employees who are struggling.

You are lucky - I was dismissed from my job last week after being off for 8 weeks

Thanks so much for your reply and I’m sorry to hear what you went through, I hope you are doing better now.

ive told them I can’t attend the meeting at the moment but it will be arranged for a couple of weeks time and I’ll have to attend regardless of how I’m feeling. I’m a worrier though so now I’ll have this on my mind for the next two weeks which will not help with trying to feel better. It’s likely thot in 2 weeks time I will feel that I have no choice but to return regardless of how ill I am and just hope that i can cope.

I think the likely outcome is I will see OH and possibly a written warning along side it. I really want to get better and feel like myself again and get back to work. It just feels so impossible at the moment.

I’m so sorry to hear this and I hope you are ok. That seems really unfair. I’m hoping that doesn’t happen to me but they said they want to discuss my return to work / adjustments in the meeting so I don’t think it will.

Thank you. I got a stage 1 formal warning added to my record. I insisted, as did my union rep, that they documented that I had been declared unfit to work by their own Occupational health team, and that I had provided appropriate sick notes. I ended up having surgery, and at that stage they backed off. Once I was over surgery and having physio, they started again and I got another formal warning. At that stage i had decided to retire as my knee really wouldn’t stand up to the job, so I wasn’t bothered.

I would attend the meeting and make it very clear that you are not ready to return and are awaiting treatment. I don’t think they can do much in those circumstances. Good luck!

You have my sympathy OP. I’m currently signed off work (condition that is covered by the Equality Act) - I tried returning to work but became incredibly ill and they have now asked me not to return until my specialist gives them confirmation that I’m well enough to be there. I already have a stage 1 warning on my record from before I was diagnosed. HR and management are lovely people who have reassured me verbally that they just want me to recover, and have sent me flowers, and I’ve done everything I can to keep them as updated as possible - but that doesn’t remove the horrible fear that ultimately I’ll end up losing my job, so I really do feel awful for you and how terrible you must have felt receiving that message. As much as we know there will be procedures in place, at a human level it just feels horrible.

I don’t know if it’ll help you at all, but I copied my company’s absence policy into ChatGPT the other day and asked it how well I was covered, and it did help to reassure me that I’ve got approximately a year before they can start formal capability procedures, and hopefully I’ll be able to return in some capacity well before then.

ETA: the absences that led to the previous warning were all linked to my condition, I just didn’t have a diagnosis at the time

But you’re spouting off about employment law without knowing?!

On top of that you have a condition which OH previously confirmed is a disability.

apart from a small number of specific conditions, the only way to confirm anything is a disability is through court. No occ health provider would say this for depression. They would say “is likely to fall under the definition of disability under EA2010”, but only in scenarios that warrant it. Not all depression would meet the requirements.

As PP have said this is just a process which needs to be followed. Employers cannot keep going indefinitely with an employee off sick. So the purpose of these meetings is usually to determine the nature of the illness and the prospects of returning and what can be done to support a return. OH referral is part of that process usually, who will likely confirm in ypur case that you are not fit to return at this point.
What the employer is seeking to understand is when you may be able to return. If the employee is off sick and unable to work with any adjustments and no prospect of improvement then the employer can move to dismiss.
Yes it sounds harsh but what is the employer supposed to do in those circumstances? The good news is if you have a condition that is not permanent and has a prospect of improving and a return to work then an ET will take a dim view of dismissal.
So if you are unable to attend the meeting which seems understandable, then I'd make a written submission explaining that you are signed off but you are undergoing treatment and you are hopeful that the treatment will improve things and it's being monitored by GP and you'd be happy to engage with OH. They will most likely be happy with that

I've heard that before too. Large companies where local management don't follow procedure and the company seems to forget staff on sick leave exist.