Formal meeting - off work with depression

[Pippalove82]

I’m currently off work with depression and have been signed off by my GP for another two weeks. I’m on antidepressants, sleeping tablets and waiting for CBT, and honestly I’m struggling to function day to day at the moment.

My employer has asked me to attend a formal absence meeting and I’ve been told the outcome could be either a written warning or a referral to Occupational Health. I’m really worried about getting a warning as my absence is due to ill health and not something I can control.

A few years ago I had a long period of sickness absence after being hospitalised with a serious illness. When I returned, I still needed occasional time off because of ongoing side effects, and Occupational Health said my health issues would likely amount to a disability. Following this some adjustments were made to help me.

Has anyone been in a similar situation? What happened, and is it normal for employers to consider a warning when someone is signed off sick by their GP? I’m finding it really stressful and scary on top of how I’m already feeling.

I’m not sure how you can be disciplined for a medical condition, unless they have cause to think you are lying? I think it’s normal to have a meeting if you have had several periods of absence in a certain time frame. Are you in a union? I would contact them for advice if so.

I wouldn’t necessarily fear a referral to OH. They might provide some helpful suggestions or support.
Surely they aren’t expecting you to attend a formal meeting when you have been signed off with depression?
If you are in a union take your rep or someone from the local office to any formal meeting (on your return)
Hope you feel better soon.

Thanks so much for your reply. I had a phone call with my work today as they wanted to do the meeting this week but I said I’m not in the right mind frame to have the meeting at the moment so it’s been pushed back a few weeks but they said if I get another note it’ll have to take place regardless. I did get quite teary on the phone and they did say it’s just their process cus it flags everything on their MI so they have to do it. She also said she knows I’m really unwell but it has to be done. I don’t think they don’t believe me, I didn’t get that impression anyway. I don’t have a union but I’m trying to get in contact with an employment advice place I was given to speak to via my GP to see what they say.

They will have an absence policy - what does it say? If you have hit the triggers on your absence is problematic for the business, they are entitled to have meetings with you to identity any support they can offer, what the plan for return is and to engage occ health for advice.

thanks so much for your reply. I would absolutely welcome a meeting with OH and I did tell them this when I spoke to them last week and they said they would arrange it but then now they want to do a formal meeting because I’ve triggered it apparently due to the time I’ve had off. I said exactly the same thing as I don’t feel in the right head space and it’s made me feel even worse than I already did if that is even possible. I also now feel like no matter how I feel in a few weeks I’m gonna go be forced to go back as I don’t want to lose my job which is really scary. I don’t have a union unfortunately but I’m trying to get hold of the employment advice place I was given via my GP to see if they can help. Thanks so much for your well wishes x

While I sympathise so much with you OP just wondering what your expectations are . Is it a position that you can eventually return to . Do you even want to .

What can smaller businesses do in this situation. If someone is off indefinitely how do they function?

Thanks so much for your reply. I have looked at the absence policy and it says they can have meetings if certain triggers are hit but this will all depend on the reason your off etc so it sounds discretionary on a case by case basis. I understand the need to have meetings etc and to see OH but it’s just that it’s being done as a formal meeting and one of the outcomes could be a written warning.

I was off sick with a knee injury. I self referred to Occupational Health who agreed I was not fit for work. I was still disciplined for having excess sick leave. My union rep said she had taken someone in on crutches with a full leg cast on, and she was also disciplined. It entirely depends on the sickness and absence policy, but yes they can do it. What I found was as soon as I said I was waiting for surgery, they backed off. If you are waiting for treatment this may help you.

Thanks so much for your reply.
i want to return, I like my job, its just I don’t feel like I’m able to do it to at the moment.
I do see it from their side but my main concern is my mental health and trying to get better and if anything this has added to my despair. It just seems really unfair to get a written warning for something I have no control over.

It's a shame so many people don't bother with unions.

This is exactly the sort of meeting your union rep would've attended with you.

Just try to make sure whatever the outcome is, it's inline with their own policy.

I'm afraid there's not much more you can do.

Thanks so much for your reply and sorry to hear you had to go through that.
what type of discipline did you get if you don’t mind me asking ? Seems like it’s out of my control then. I feel as though I will have no choice but to return to work at the end of this note regardless of how I feel which feels really daunting.

Thanks so much for your reply. Unfortunately I don’t have a union at my work.

Look up formal absence review meeting FARM, they’re usually designed to discuss possibility of coming back to work and anything work can do to help and support. If you explain you’re awaiting CBT it have still been signed off, from your aspect, they may refer you to OH but that’s ok. It should be supportive but realise other businesses may have different policies to my place of work before I retired through ill health. I used to have FARM meetings with my staff and had them myself when I was off almost a year prior to ill health retirement and they were helpful albeit a bit scary as ‘formal’
good luck but hope you get your CBT soon

A written warning for being signed off sick by a doctor?! Erm...that breaches employment law.

I 'd ask them what they mean by written warning?!

If you attended the meeting and they don't believe you were sick they'll discipline you?

Do not go without a witness.

You don't need one at your actual place of work.

You can just join any suitable union for your line of work.

They mean a written absence warning and no, it doesn't breach most policies, especially trigger point policies.

I didn't know they could give a warning for illness. Unless they're off for like months? That sounds harsh.

It's not about disiplining the staff member it's about following the proceedure, but ulitimately they're not obliged to keep a staff member who is unable to do their job because of ill health.

OP, their policy will say those are the two possible outcomes of the formal meeting, so that's what they need to tell you, but the most likely at this early stage will be a referral to OH, which as you found before can be helpful.

Probably, if you had a protracted absence before, someone has been told not to let this drag on too long this time, so they will follow the procedure in a more timely fashion. Read it, so you know what to expect.

You aren't obliged to attend the meeting if you're not well enough, but they can still move through the procedure if you don't.

It sounds like your manager is in the same position I was just in. One of my reports was off with depression and HR were on my back to do all the formal procedural stuff when I just wanted to leave her alone to get better. I did the bare minimum to keep HR happy while making it clear I knew she was unwell and this was not the approach she needed. I would've fought tooth and nail if they had even suggested a written warning. As it was I bypassed them and went to the MD to agree she could stay on full pay beyond the company standard, since financial worries would hardly have helped her recover. He agreed right away.

HR are just doing their job, I get it. But it sounds like your manager has your back.

It does sound harsh but in reality some employees understandably hang on to jobs they can no longer do due to their health, because they're on sick pay.

And this often means they're absent more often than they're attending in a year.

@Pippalove82 a high level of absence from work can become a capability issue if someone is too ill or disabled to carry out their role even with reasonable adjustments in place. The written warning could be to advise that your job may be at risk if that is the case. A lot depends on the capacity of the employer to cover the workload with frequent or extended absences.

Oh my dear, this stress is the last thing you need on top of feeling depressed.

I think it’s probably true that a certain number of absences trigger a formal meeting and warning. Is there something at work that is making it harder for you to function? Could something be altered to help your return to work?

Depression isn’t something you bounce back from in a few weeks but sometimes you can get over a nasty patch and then being in a supportive kind environment doing normal routine work can help you stabilise. Do you think that could apply to you? Obviously you’re dreading it right now - dark patch, And it’s hard to see daylight ahead.

What else are you doing outside work to help you recover? Perhaps we can help with some ideas, number one is don’t worry about work too much!

You are confusing a disciplinary meeting (where you have done something wrong) with a capability meeting ( based on absence). The company is telling you that they need to talk to you to find out if they can deal with your expected ongoing absence. The Occupational Health report will help see if there is anything to do that will make your return quicker and smoother. The potential warning letter will put you on notice that you are in the absence capability process and it may result in dismissal if your attendance does not improve. This is part one, they have to follow the process to avoid unfair dismissal claims.

At this point, the OH can help you but they will want to know what you are doing to help yourself. Its absolutely not about whether or not you have a genuine medical illness, its about whether the company is capable of dealing with your absence. If you refuse meetings that will all be recorded in case you try to claim unfair dismissal later. Go to the meeting and accept the OH referral, let them know what your current treatment is.

You should be given access to the full Absence Policy in paper form, pdf or via your company's intranet etc. If you can't access your company's intranet at home then they must send you a paper copy or a pdf via email. You must be given this prior to any meeting and any meeting appointments should be sent by post or email. If your company has a welfare scheme then they should detail access to it - have a look even if you think it isn't relevant because some have legal advice which is free.

You are entitled to take someone with you to the meeting whether that's a union rep, colleague, friend or family member. Whoever you take is allowed to make their own notes of what is asked and said. If you go alone then ask to record it on your phone for your own record. You can not avoid having a meeting if they request it but they must make reasonable adjustments such as having near to your home, at home or by teams etc if you temporarily can not leave your home etc. You can request breaks and if you become distressed or are unable to carry on then the meeting should be adjourned for a short break or to recommence on another day.

Have a look at ACAS for useful advice.

Write a list of why you're off, what treatment you're having and what treatment you're waiting for so that it's all there for you to refer to as you need it.
Ask for/agree an Occupational Health assessment as that will look at your current issues, future return to work needs and any reasonable adjustments.

Yeah, in that case it's fair enough to dismiss them. I guess it's just the way they seem to be implying you should just 'get better' because you've had a warning. I mean wouldn't that make your illness look fake? It feels like you're damned if you do get better on command somehow and damned if you don't.