Is UK university debt worth it for a non-vocational degree?

[BettyBoh]

This question sits between work/education /finances/family.

in short: is the massive amount of student debt worth it if you chose a degree that’s not directly vocational (eg physio leads you to be a physio, accounting leads you to work in finance admin, but business or history doesnt really lead you anywhere directly unless you want to teach it). Is it better to find a job and work your way up or sideways through different companies?

in long:
my son is 17 and in Lower 6th studying A-levels.
he did well at GCSE due to being intelligent, good school attendance and good attitude to learning. He used study leave wisely meeting - meeting fiends at the library and using an appon his phone to block distractions. He got all 9s and 8s.
he’s doing ok at a-level but distractions like social life are getting in the way of how well he could be doing. He knew A-levels were a significant step up from GCSE. He takes 4 because it’s school policy and one is a language he already speaks so it’s not full on work.

he is thinking about uni. If he changes his mentality a bit he could get A*/A/B/B, but he’s struggling with focus. Very likely ADHD - it’s hereditary and he is showing every classic sign. He’s destined for ABCC I think at a push.

i think he should go and work. Theres plenty of jobs that don’t require degrees. He doesn’t want want to miss out on “all the fun” but I am desperately worried about the debt. 60k is a deposit on a flat!

there are other cheaper alternatives open to him with a European passport but for now I’d just like opinions on UK uni and UK debt.

What jobs though? The jobs market is extremely tough for young people. If he has the opportunity to study abroad though, maybe that’s the answer.

What does he actually want to study? With those grades he has lots of options at lots of unis.

I think it is worth it if he can get into a decent university and do well. A good degree from a good institution will open doors for him in the world of work. No, you don't have to have a degree to get a job. But lots of jobs now require one. Working your way up is harder than it used to be, unless you want to work in a supermarket or a shop or a restaurant. Which is fine, and some people build great careers from that kind of thing, but most of the entry level jobs will be minimum wage.

All 9s and 8s at GCSE is a fantastic set of results and he should absolutely be able to get into a good UK university.

If he can go to a European university and end up with less debt that might be a good idea, depending on what he wants to study and what he wants to do later on.

60K is a deposit on a flat. But he won't have 60K, unless you are proposing to give it to him. You can't just take out the loans and not go to university! And chances are that without a degree he will struggle to get the kind of job that will allow him to save 60K easily anyway.

Do you think he's subconsciously not bothering to work because he can see that you don't value a university education? Did you go to university yourself? Did anyone else in your family? Or is he the first to get the opportunity?

Most degrees at, say, Oxbridge or the Russell Group universities aren't vocational. Do you think that the people studying History at Oxbridge aren't going to see any benefit from that?

“Just get a job” is really the tough route these days! Degree apprenticeships are essentially the post A level training courses in work, but there’s nowhere near as many vacancies as post A level students who want to do them.

How “worth it” a degree is really depends on the degree and the uni. What would he read/study?

No it’s not a waste, depending on the degree and university.
He should drop one of his subjects and aim for ABB though

A minority of trainee accountants have an accounting & finance degree. The rest have everything from history to maths with all sorts in between. You can train for your professional exams as a school leaver, but again, those are in a minority.

With those grades probably not.

He has the rest of his life to go to university though, he can go to work for a few years and figure out what he actually wants to do and then study the relevant course for that. And by get a job I mean anything, shop pub warehouse care home etc. He’ll soon learn what he doesn’t want to and get exposure to different jobs.

Going to uni for the sake of it is a waste of time and money.

Instead of all or nothing let him take 1-2 years out getting any job and life experience. It’s what our DD is doing she’s juggling 3 PT jobs , plus sports training and has just bought her own car. The last year has been great for her growing into an adult. She’s still considering university but we said you need to be really sure about what you do and have saved some money first. She’s going on a self funded holiday too. Honestly let him breathe for a bit. She’s got friends who have gone travelling too and they just learn so many more life skills which will make them better students or employees or business owners in time.

You don’t mention what his a levels are or what degree he is interested in.

yes, there are many jobs that don’t require a degree. There are also many that do.

and in some industries (but not others) you can only go so far up the ladder if you don’t have a degree.

so it really depends on what sort of job he wants (or what sort of job you want him to get).

quantitative analyst at a hedge fund? He’ll need a maths degree.

computer programmer - if he’s got the skills already then degree not compulsory.

or if you have passports for other eu countries their universities are usually a hell if a lot cheaper

What do you mean, with those grades? Those are good grades.

Agree with @user293948849167 that it might be better to drop one and concentrate on three for better grades. With ABB it is absolutely possible to get into a good university to do something he's good at and come out with a good degree.

Dd1 is 3 years after uni and earning £48k with another promotion expected soon, in a northern city. She travelled for a year so that’s 2 yrs working to get that pay. Non vocational degree from a good uni.

DD2 didn’t go to uni, has worked hard for 5 years and got promoted from minimum wage to £27 k, no more chance of promotion in her current job but she loves it there.

£60k debt isn’t huge when I look at those figures.

But aren't there a huge amount of graduates saying that they can't get any job?

I think the job market is hard for everyone right now, including those who haven't got a degree. Why wouldn't you take the advantage that having a degree offers? It certainly means you can apply for a wider pool of jobs than someone without a degree. The rest is up to the young person involved.

Because a degree in the UK gets people into around 80k of debt

he shouldn't go to Uni if he's not motivated to go to Uni.

What A-levels is he taking?

Does he have any work experience?

Unless he is going to get 4As or 3As and an A, there is no point in doing 4 A levels. He should drop his weakest subject.

Instead of framing this around good grades and a ‘good’ university, perhaps think about more vocational courses at university? I went to what Mumsnet would consider a ‘bad’ university, but the more vocational courses and more practical / less academic framing has meant career success for me and my peers. In the current job market this might be a better way forward - but course must be carefully chosen.

I think that a non- vocational undergrad degree in a traditional subject is more “worth the money”, if it is going to lead to a non- health profession such as law, business leadership, investment banking etc - even psychology where high level thinking, critical analysis, interpretation of data leadership skills are sought and postgraduate degrees are required or conversion degrees are the norm. Especially if the undergraduate degree is from a university with a decent reputation. It gives bright young people with no idea yet of what they want to do the flexibility to change their minds, whereas, with a vocational degree it will be much more difficult to change career after graduation.

Being entitled to an EU passport doesn’t open you up to a cheap EU degree - he’d probably be assessed as overseas for fees, and won’t be able to get a loan to live on so you’d be funding him entirely.

Yes the job market for grads is pretty bad at the moment- but 90% of grads find a job, the vast majority a graduate job. And think longer term than the immediate year after graduating - think 5,10,20 years ahead. Those without a degree tend to hit a ceiling.

It does open you up to a cheap EU degree. In some EU countries, degrees are free for all people from the EU

It’s usually for those domiciled in the EU, not simply having an EU passport. I can’t think of any (other than Ireland/UK) where you can be domiciled elsewhere.

nothing’s worth getting into that much debt for!

80K of notional debt that won't be repaid unless you get the benefit of the degree and have a higher than average paying job.

How long do you have to be domiciled. If its something like 2years, it would be worth it to go and live and work in an EU country for two years. Then apply for Uni. Save him 80k of debt in the uk

Many people have to repay it some of it every month though. The loan also has a terrible interest rate. There were so many news stories this year about people complaining about their UK student loan