New direct report earning higher salary

[InAWorkPickle]

Currently navigating some changes at work following a recent restructuring. I’ve taken on additional responsibilities and as well as that, now oversee a department of two people.

However, one of the team members is currently earning significantly more than I am, despite having fewer responsibilities and tbh skills. There are definite issues with productivity etc from the department, which is why I think I’ve been put in there.

Have been told that remuneration will be discussed in a couple of weeks time and I came here because I want to be sure… the salary situation is not right? I can’t be expected to manage someone with less responsibilities and a greater salary?

To me, this seems obvious, but anxiety and imposter syndrome are issues with me and I’d like to get some feedback and discuss here before having the conversations at work.

The thing is though, none of this actually makes any difference to your salary. The company has decided and agreed that the salary IS what he is worth. It’s not up to you really to dispute that.

Argue for your own salary, and your worth, but “x earns more than me” isn’t a strong starting point.

its one of the other, though, isn’t it:

Either negotiate hard (and be prepared to walk)

or

find the current role convenient for other reasons and would like it ro carry a higher salary.

Can’t really be both. And that’s what many companies rely on.

I agree with others that the salary of the person you manage is irrelevant for the purposes of you negotiating an increase.

You have been restructured into a more senior role than before, with additional responsibilities but no extra money, and that is why you need to ask for a pay rise.

It’s not uncommon to have a direct report earning more.
How much they earn has no bearing on you managing them.
Whether they’re worth what they’re being paid is between them and the person who hired them.

Well I definitely wasn’t going to start with ‘I want what X has…’ but this has irked me so wanted to get this aspect straight in my head.
I can absolutely demonstrate my value, it’s directly linked to revenue so it’s there in black and white. I think I was so happy with taking this role that I didn’t question the salary so much, it was still a nice increase for me and I’ve had a few incremental increases and bonuses since.

But it has turned out to be and exceptionally busy job, lots of responsibility and pressure and I do need to benchmark the role myself because I know I’m underpaid. Maybe I’m wondering how much I can get away with? 😅 If someone with such low productivity and no tie to any real measurable metrics can earn this in this company, what can I earn… maybe that’s the question? 😅

This.

Most employers want to pay the least possible for the best possible, typically. If they know you’re not prepared to walk away from the job, why would they offer you more money to do the same thing you’re currently doing for the lower salary?

My husband did this a few years ago, had an offer in place from another company with a better package and was absolutely prepared to walk if his employer wasn’t prepared to match or better it. But if the reality is that you’re not prepared to walk away you can’t really risk that because if they call your bluff then you either have to stand by it and leave or retreat with tail between legs looking really a bit stupid.

I know, this is also a fear. I’ve had 2 other job offers in the last 12 months, 1 with a really lengthy interview process. I was ready to walk at that time but the restructure has brought hope and I really do enjoy what I do. I could go somewhere else but it wouldn’t mean as much and would likely mean a change to either lots more travel, or complete wfh for a job I don’t feel as passionate about. Too long to explain but they’re kind of the options in my industry and I’d prefer neither!

Id love to stay where I am for now, it suits DC and challenges me just enough. But I also want to feel valued and I think I’d grow resentment being responsible for someone’s work who wasn’t performing. I will absolutely give them the help they need but I’m doubtful because the skills just aren’t there. Also, I’d love to think I could take at least a £17k jump in salary, it would honestly be incredible for me and DC so I want to approach this correctly and fairly and not make a fool of myself 😅

A friend of mine was offered a promotion and more responsibility but they said they couldn’t immediately adjust salary. She told them she’d be delighted to do the job as soon as they were able to compensate her fairly for her work. She got the pay.

Its absolutely not right, no matter what anybody might say to argue otherwise!

If you're in a more senior position with more responsibilities, you should be paid more.

It's an absolute piss take. If you know how much they earn and have seen it on a spreadsheet that you sign off then flag it with your line manager and HR. How much more do they earn?

It feels like you shouldn't be singling out their failings as reasons for you to have a higher salary.

The two things- you wanting more money (you can't say you want them to suddenly be given less) and this person's performance being sub par; need to be kept totally separate.

Many full time contracted staff manage hourly paid workers who have a zero hours contract but on any given project could be on paper being paid more than their line manager per hour.

As others have covered well - there’s nothing in itself wrong with managing someone who’s paid more than you. There are plenty of very valid situations for that to be the case.

You also fairly regularly come across people who are paid well above or below the market rate for their role / their performance. In the private sectors salaries are generally the outcome of negotiations at the point of recruitment. At that stage the inputs are the job market intel, the persons performance in the recruitment process and their negotiation skills compared to the hiring manager. You’ll notice none of those are directly linked to their performance in the role They’re doing. That tends to only influence bonuses, their outcome in redundancy rounds and pay increments.

So, when you get someone who comes across well during hiring, and negotiates well - you can find they’re on higher salaries than their performance would merit, or that they’d have any hope of achieving through internal pay rises.

Most companies see pay as fixed. They don’t consider reducing it for poor performance, that’s only linked to rises and bonuses. It becomes a case of performance management plans in their current role that ultimately mean they reach a standard where they stay, or they’re managed out. Probably with minimum pay rises for the foreseeable future.

A screw up on setting on staff members salary doesn’t have any bearing on anyone else’s (unless it uses up the budget). Your salary for your role is a function of market rate, your negotiating skills, and your perceived value to the organisation / perceived flight risk. This persons pay isn’t a factor. Managing difficult individuals is a factor in the role market rate, but poor performance is fairly par for the course for managers.

Thank you everyone, and I’m hearing everyone loud and clear. It would never have been my intention to start negotiations with just comparing my salary to that of my colleague. I brought it up as I personally find it very frustrating that my workload is far greater but hats off to them for their negotiating skills I suppose.

I’ll go and do as best a benchmarking as I can before they come back to me, my role is a bit niche so I’ll just have to try find closest comparables, and focus on past performance and current/future workload.

OP you sound like the average woman. Forget about this man and his salary and work on selling yourself. FYI degrees etc do not matter as much, especially after 30 years. Do not get hung up on diplomas unless its for a profession. I really don't think it matters as much. They won't give anyone more money for having a degree in a related field. Its typical woman thinking (I am one too).

Put together your biz case as others have suggested. Show them how useful you are, how you will turn the department around etc. Its all that matters. Not another diploma.

You will have to address this man's performance and the problem might then resolve.

Is it really true that managers need to earn more than their staff?

I've worked places where I'm pretty sure the top salespeople outearned their managers due to commission. A previous boss told me one of his team became a instant millionaire off a deal - was on 1% commission and landed a £100m deal.

Where I work now some of the fitters earn more than their managers due to unsociable hours and overtime. Admittedly they tend to be the ones that really push the hours. I'm also pretty sure I outearn our plant manager. He's not my line manager (I report to Head of Transport) but he runs things day to day and is senior to me. His basic is about a grand more than mine but I get a £150 bonus when working a night shift and 1.5x hourly rate paid at minimum of nine hours, so I get around £360 for a 4-5 hour shift.

I get paid £300 bonus and double time on bank holidays so make around £700. This all pushes me a little past the manager despite him running operations daily and telling me what to do.

I think you need to take the other person out of the equation actually and think about the work you do and what you think it's worth.

Then you negotiate for that.

Their salary is really none of your business.

You mention a relationship between the person you manage and a former member of staff as being key in their high salary. Do you mean something improper has happened previously or could they be a valued long term member of staff, perhaps coming up to retirement. I remember someone I knew years ago got paid much more than all his colleagues of the same grade, but he had been on a par with all the senior partners at one point, worked hard, was very experienced and had good relationships all over his industry to help sort out problems, perhaps not always in the most conventional way. This kind of soft landing from a career rarely happens today.

I agree this is wrong. I was in a similar situation, took on a direct report that earnt more than me. I went to boss and said this is put right by the end of the day and it was. Think I said or I’m not staying but it was a long time ago when jobs and pay rises were way easier to get than nowadays.

Just want to point out that pay secrecy clauses that ban you discussing pay with colleagues are pretty much unenforceable due to the equality act. You cannot be censured for discussing your pay if you are trying to discover if you're being unlawfully discriminated against (which pretty much any pay discussion can be framed as).

*you need to take the other person out of the equation actually and think about the work you do and what you think it's worth.

Then you negotiate for that.*

^^ this

Op should know the salaries of those reporting to her, it helps clarify expectations. If you dont know, you may have 2 people on vastly different salaries, and expect them to produce the same work which is not fair.

Who are you “irked” at? The company? You inherited this team member. Presumably his line manager had rated him, and when he negotiated his pay - he was rewarded handsomely.

You don’t seem to have actually done any negotiations, just pissed at what someone else has secured.

And you say he is wholly underperforming. You are his manager. Manage him.

I'm always amazed how MN thinks life ought to be fair. Presuming this other person is male? It is a shame for you, but the other person's pay is not going to get reduced

I’m glad you’re moving away from focusing on your colleage, your comments smacked of jealousy and resentment, because they earned more. And that is a sign of a very poor manager indeed.

you need to focus on your own skill set snd salary negotiation. Not attack someone else and allude to them being less capable and shit st their job.

The OP has done zero negotiation but expects to just be handed a pay rise.

Gender is irrelevant in this scenario.