In trouble at work - what to do?

[neveragooddeed]

NC for this.

I'm in trouble at work. For context, I'm a high achiever who goes above and beyond, has glowing appraisals, blah blah.

My colleague, let's call her Brenda, told me that she was being bullied by Roger. I was a shoulder to cry on until Brenda went to HR, who recommended she lodge a grievance against Roger.

Brenda then went on sick leave with stress and, while off, asked me to contact another colleague, Samantha, to say that, if she witnessed anything, Samantha could speak to HR in confidence. I did so, discreetly, without naming Roger. I am now facing formal disciplinary action from HR because I should not have spoken to Samantha.

Apart from stepping on HR's toes, which I have already apologised for, I don't really know what the offence is. I have no idea how to defend myself against this. What should I be doing?

I may as well also mention that I'm interviewing for a role at another company. If they ask for a reference and I have a disciplinary on my record, what will they be told? I will be well and truly fucked off if I lose this opportunity because I tried to help a vulnerable colleague. Never a good deed goes unpunished and all that.

Thanks for any advice or insights.

No, no safeguarding factors.

I'm not sure what you mean about declaring it. The disciplinary has only started since I informally accepted the new role, but I wouldn't need to declare it to the new employer anyway, and my current employer doesn't know about the new job yet as I haven't had the contract and am aware the offer could vanish overnight.

My husband was Roger and ended up being dismissed thanks to the actions of someone who wasn’t involved fishing for info and spreading lies. Unfortunately the HR at his company were/ still anre absolutely crap and chose to overlook this and sweep it under the carpet. So we are taking the company to ET and bringing defamation claims against the individuals involved. This isn’t meant to scare you but to highlight the impact of actions.

I'm sorry to hear about your husband's experience. That's a horrible position to be in and I hope you reach a resolution you're comfortable with.

I do take your point about the impact of actions. That's why I was very careful not to refer to any specific allegations or names at all. In this case, Roger has not been dismissed and it looks like the original case has been dropped. (I say "looks like" as I've been giving Brenda and her team a wide berth.)

Asking someone to do your dirty work for you is the opposite of naive. Had she not known there could be blow back she would have spoken to Samantha directly on the phone.
You need to extricate yourself from this before the disciplinary hearing happens- it will go on your record no matter the outcome.
Use this as a learning experience and NEVER take requests from colleagues at face value,never spy for anyone , or ask someone else to spy on someone for you, or anyone else- no matter how lovely they seem.
Rescinding offers at a late stage happens sometimes whether references are involved or not.

The allegations are very wooly and I would be asking for more specific details. Have they given you a casefile with the hearing invite? With all the evidence they are going to refer to?

In some places they may accept a resignation with immediate effect. They can’t dismiss you if they accept as you’re no longer an employee… but to be honest what you have described doesn’t sound like gross misconduct.

So the underlying message is never help anyone who claims they're being bullied - leave them isolated and keep your head down

The thing is, employees are not supposed to approach witnesses themselves as it can be seen as collusion and influencing the outcome, only HR or the investigator should approach witnesses themselves. Don’t tip people off or try to align a story in advance.

In terms of resulting disciplinary action against you, it really depends on what your rules are around approaching witnesses. Ultimately grievances and disciplinary issues are supposed to be private so I imagine you shouldn’t even discreetly discuss it with others in this way. They could be trying to make you an example if you are senior & should know better hence treating this robustly. But ultimately you’re leaving, so who cares.

No, that’s you thinking in extremes and being disingenuous.

You can offer emotional support, you just don’t need to approach witnesses themselves that will be approached as part of a formal investigation. You’re not the investigator so you have no business going to find witnesses and trying to align them. It’s running interference.

If I were in this situation, I'd be handing my notice in tomorrow. I would request to HR that you are able to leave with immediate effect, or a short notice period of say 5 working days, short enough to tie up/hand over, and before a disciplinary can go ahead. But seek advice on doing this first.

I would not want to risk the disciplinary going on the record, but you may well have to clarify with HR about them even mentioning the investigation and intention to proceed to disciplinary action which discussing the notice period. They may be utter cunts and mention it on a reference even if you leave before the disciplinary hearing.

You could word it to them that you are willing to resign, on the spot with immediate effect, on the condition that the investigation/disciplinary intention will NOT be mentioned on a reference - and get this in writing. Word it like you're doing them a favour by volunteering to go. But again, get advice, perhaps from ACAS & union rep first.

This is really shit, sorry you're going through this.

I'm speaking from personal experience - bullying at work usually ends in disaster for the victim. I've stood up to bullies all my life & all that happens is the bully wins because HR don't like aggro

Right, but that has nothing to do with it being frowned upon to approach witnesses outside of a formal investigation. it’s totally valid for bullying to be unacceptable, and separately for interfering in an investigation to be unacceptable. You have to keep in mind, that grievances etc can be used to bully the accused. Count yourself lucky if you’ve never had to deal with bogus or vindictive investigations, but that doesn’t mean they don’t exist. It’s fairer for everyone involved, including the victim, for the investigation to run its course without witnesses being sought out in advance of that investigation.

I think what has happened is the grievance from your friend was started and so the HR team would have began their investigations and what you did has compromised a fair investigation ( not that you willingly Knew this)

The best thing to do here is show your remorse and genuine view that you really didn’t mean to cause any harm or meanfully hinder an ongoing investigation and you will most likely not be sanction with dismissal.

Good luck- they aren’t nice things to go through x

Union rep here - you can't do that once it's a formal issue. You can leave but you can't offer to leave in turn for them not continuing with this (well you can ask but they won't stop it).

I hope your rep is good because it sounds like - tho you shouldn't have done what you did - that you have been somewhat hung out to dry. It does come across that the person you spoke to definitely did not take your comment in a 'guidance to HR' way and did feel intimidated.

I suggest sincere apologies, showing you understand what you did wrong and a guarantee you would never act that way again.

Check your employer's referencing policy - if there are no safeguarding elements then they may provide your employment dates only. Some places will also advise if there is any disciplinary action or warnings on file in a reference but many don't. You will probably need to check that directly with HR so maybe just phone someone in that dept on the admin side not involved in your case and ask what the referencing policy is.

You have had a formal letter now then with allegations outlined ? What are they. Sounds so heavy handed.

I also don't really see what you're done wrong.

In terms of a reference I understand a reference may not say anything but you can try to agree something before you go. You could either pre-empt the disciplinary and leave or appeal it if it happens or raise a grievance and then agree exit terms.

havent RTFT but they need to give you a hearing before they can give you a disciplinary and they'll need to make clear exactly what the issue is.

I agree. I think the issue which everyone here seems to be sidestepping, is that the colleague (Samantha) who OP approached has either complained about OP, or put forward a perspective where HR felt OP needed to be reprimanded even if Samantha didn’t formally complain. Ie Samantha has obviously reported OP and thrown her in it.

So Samantha doesn’t trust nor like OP. She might have felt intimidated, or she might simply have felt OP overstepped and acted outside their remit. Because what came out of that, wasn’t OP being seen as an innocent bystander to another incident but someone who needs to be under investigation themselves.

OP this should probably open your eyes that not everyone at work is your friend. You thought you were being discreet and professional to Samantha. Samantha hid how she truly felt and went along with it, only to report you because she found it unprofessional.

Yeah, Samantha mentioned it to someone. HR or Roger found out and have decided, despite your best intentions, that it prejudiced the investigation into Roger. Office relationships (not romantic!) are so tricky even when everyone gets on and things are going well.

@Puskiesauce has given good advice.

Hope an apology suffices and then check it's not going to be mentioned in references. Good luck in new role!

All you did was pass on a rather cryptic message from one colleague to another. How can that be an offence? Why didn't Brenda just ring up Samantha if she wanted to pass on a message? Was Brenda not meant to talk to Samantha due to the ongoing investigation? But if so how were you meant to know that?

OP hasn’t said what their job is. It might be that they’re senior enough to know better. I imagine anyone who is a line manager for example to know enough about grievance investigations to not interfere, so someone on that level doing this might be made an example of. Whereas the most low paid staff, probably could get a pass for being junior or inexperienced