What was this meeting? (Manager and HR)

[Szerrm]

I have a new Manager of 6 months. I considered her ok, though I have felt uneasy in the last few months.

She invited me to a 121 1 hour meeting in the office (these are usually weekly video call 10 min meetings). This was at the end of last month.

A HR Manager was also in the meeting, she advised was there as simply visiting the office that day and was invited. (I didn't expect HR to be in attendance and was uncomfortable, alongside the unusual location and length of the meeting).

My Manager raised 2 issues, one being I was taking too long to do a piece of work -weekly task. I explained it was detailed hence the time and took this project as part of my workload, the person previously working on this project solely did this as their full-time role.

The other issue, it took me 30 minutes to respond to an email from Manager requesting documents. I replied that I believed 30 minutes to respond and supply the requested documents was acceptable.

These 2 issues were debated between myself and Manager. HR listened.

I did ask if this was a form of disciplinary and assured not.

I realise my Manager considers myself incompetent and dislikes me. I'm of the same opinion. Though we continue to work. The meeting hasn't been mentioned since. My Manager has mentioned to myself since I'm unlikely to meet my objectives this year.

I haven't had HR attend such a meeting before. Is this standard?

I expected a follow-up of the meeting, maybe a certain time I have to complete the one piece of work (though I can not complete it quicker). I'm more conscious of Managers requests and have been prioritising them (over other tasks I don't believe I should be but conscious of being reprimanded again).

I do feel she would like to push me out. I've been with the Company for 2 years, hadn't considered looking for a new role in current slow job market.

I feel embarrassed and surely my Manager must have had a conversation with her Manager about myself, as well as HR before this meeting. Though I don't understand why the meeting was held with no resolution.

Advice please (apologies for length but want to give backstory)

your manager was wise to have HR rep present

I haven't had HR attend such a meeting before

have you had similar meetings before then?

My Manager has mentioned to myself since I'm unlikely to meet my objectives this year.

What does this mean?

Sadly, I would be looking for another job. Nothing good comes out of HR, ever. Sounds like they are building a case.

If I sound bitter, it's because I got sacked because the organisation I worked for (public sector) overspent it's budget and they wanted scape goats.

Sadly - I hate employers now, and I used to be a "see the best in people" person.

They’re starting the performance management process against you

It does sound as if this meeting was generating evidence for something more serious. I would be wary.

By the way it is “me” not “myself”.

I would expect this kind of meeting to be documented, to cover you & your manager.

If you’re invited to another meeting with HR present ask to take someone in with you to observe too.

My Manager has mentioned to myself since I'm unlikely to meet my objectives this year.

What are your objectives? Have you had them formally set and how often are they assessed? This should be done throughout the year and any issues raised with an opportunity to review/improve - it shouldn’t be something that’s only discussed at the end of the year.

A side note… but it’s me, not ‘myself’ which may be relevant if your role includes communications/copy writing.

“Myself” is not a more formal or professional way to say “me”.

FYI.

I think anyone would be unsettled by this. I would guess it's likely your manager wants to put you on some kind of performance improvement plan.
The comment that you're unlikely to meet your objectives this year would have an alarm bell ringing for me. Again just guessing, but I'd assume HR would have concluded there currently wasn't enough evidence to justify a PIP. Not meeting objectives would probably tip the balance. How often are your objectives reviewed? Are they achievable? Did the manager indicate which one(s)?

As you've worked for them for over 2 years, they have to have strong evidence to manage you out.

I'm not sure what the wisest way to deal with it is. Taking on a task that was previously someone's full-time responsibility, on top of your workload seems like setting you up for failure. But I don't know how well pushing back on this would go for you. I think I would be actively looking for another job

Ask to see the minutes of the last meeting

I suggest they are intending to ease you out especially as your manager has clearly said that you're unlikely to meet your targets

You could stick around and see if they'll pay you to go

I'd find another job pronto as I cannot be bothered with the stress and hassle of dealing with unions and HR

A side note… but it’s me, not ‘myself’ which may be relevant if your role includes communications/copy writing.

It’s copywriting.

Your manager is a sneaky so and so by not giving you notice that the HR person was going to attend as an observer. I’d definitely be wary of her in future but just because she might want you out, you don’t have to give her an easy ride. Fuck that!

ALWAYS ask for a written agenda in advance of future meetings and written confirmation of the notes from the meeting afterwards.

If she wants you to respond to emails immediately, she should phone you instead. She’s not allowing you to organise your time effectively. If you’re busy focussing on a task, why would you’ve waste time checking all your emails every 5 minutes? I’d check them once an hour at most as you need to concentrate on the task at hand.

Taking 30mins to respond to an email is perfectly reasonable and HR would struggle to support her nonsense if this is the best she can come up with.

Every time she says something woolly about not meeting objectives, ask her to define in writing exactly what she’d like you to do within a particular timescale as you were working to the expectations set by your previous manager and so was unaware of any major changes. Make her spell it out.

As she’s new to the role, she might be trying to show off to the HR person about how tough a manager she can be.

A good manager would spend time familiarising themselves with the workload each staff member is dealing with and discussing it with them and giving them the opportunity to address any shortcomings before raising any concerns in front of HR.

Do not roll over and give up!

Thank you, it does seem I'm right to feel uneasy and likely being managed out.

The objectives were set by previous manager, mostly related to tasks and achievable I believed. New manager had said in subsequent 121 call (where I had updated progress of objectives) she likely wouldn't pass them. (I did say I felt it was unfair as I had evidenced them).

Will be more conscious of grammar.

It could be that HR were there watching her. Or that she didn't feel comfortable having even an informal chat with you without a colleague to corroborate things...have you crossed swords before? Maybe the HR bod was genuinely just in the office for the day and tagged along. It could be that she's suggested putting you on some kind of formal performance process, and HR wanted to hear your side of things before making a decision. It could be that your manager has raised issues around your attitude, and HR want to see it first hand before taking formal steps.

Regardless, I'd want to cover myself. Send an email to your boss and HR outlining what was raised in the meeting and your responses, plus any agreed actions on both sides.

The 'not meeting targets' thing is interesting... What are the consequences of this? Did you disagree? If so, outline what you're currently doing in terms of working towards them. If not, you should be suggesting/asking for some kind of formal support plan to get you back on target, or as close as possible.

Given that you're two years in, managing you out on performance grounds means following a fair, documented process. If your and/or your manager have identified shortcomings, they have a responsibility to support you just as you have a responsibility to put the work in.

New manager had said in subsequent 121 call (where I had updated progress of objectives) she likely wouldn't pass them. (I did say I felt it was unfair as I had evidenced them).

This changes things obviously. How far through the process were you informed that she wouldn't pass them as is?

It would be unreasonable/unfair of her to move the goalposts at the last minute if you had evidenced that you were on track to hit the targets you'd been set.

However if she told you this months ago then you've potentially had time to rectify things and ask for support.

If you genuinely believe you're being treated unfairly, you've every right to go over her head/complain.

You could start with explaining the background and what has actually happened.

OP

You should have rejected the meeting on the grounds that HR had no reason to be there - in addition to the fact you didnt have a union rep/supporting colleague either.

You don't have the right to have a Union rep/colleague with you for every meeting with your manager.

OP asked multiple times if the conversation was part of a disciplinary process and her manager confirmed that it wasn't.

HR could have any number of legitimate reasons for being there.

She doesn't need that pedantic crap when she's worried about her job.

She does need help with getting the written word correctly onto paper/email/message. It's really important if she wants to be taken seriously in her professional life

Wrong.

In any case, the OP should have outright refused the meeting when HR was present.

It matters not that the manager said this wasnt a part of the disciplinary process - that further undermines the need for HR to even be there.

Any workplace worth their salt will tell you that HR being present for a scheduled 1-2-1 is not normal and simply doesnt happen.

Could it have been the new manager being observed by HR, not you? How are other direct reports getting in with them? Doesn’t yet sound like enough for you to raise a grievance against the manager but it might be worth getting up to speed with the grievance policy in your handbook (assuming there is one - otherwise ACAS)

It's only work. Keep your indeed sub on the go. My daughters receive daily emails

@KaleidoscopeSmile "She doesn't need that pedantic crap when she's worried about her job."

That depends. If her job involves good use of English (copywriter, editing, law, marketing - to name but a few) then bad grammar won't help the situation. In any event, the lack of such basic grammatical knowledge will most certainly dimish her professional credibility.