Any City lawyers here? Do I need to quit?

[BurningOutt]

I feel like I might be approaching burn out, but as a result am not really in a position to think straight.

Im 38, 11pqe and on partner “track” in litigation in a US firm - should have been due to be made up this year but apparently it will be next now due to vague firmwide politics. I’m heading for 2100 hours this year, have brought in my own client, am running cases for head of team with minimal supervision. Associates are heavily weighted towards junior end so im
also doing a lot of the work as well as management. I know that I am excellent at my job, a good lawyer and a good manager, and I enjoy it (when it’s not this intense).

But my kids are 5 and 7 and I feel like I’ve barely seen them this year. I feel like the last few years since dc1 started school in particular have flown by - my dc2 was a baby then and now she’s not.

My DH is a low earner and both of us come from working class backgrounds so even though I earn v well we have a small house, big mortgage. Up till this September when dc2 started school I was paying 40% of my takehome salary to the nanny so haven’t had a flush life at all.

I feel like just throwing in the towel and leaving London, finding a slower paced, lower paid job. But I worry that I will regret it as I’m so close to the “prize” now and the extra money could make a massive difference to my kids’ future.

I grew up in poverty so was massively motivated to do this job to avoid my kids having the childhood I had, but in hindsight I had so much more time with my mum and I wonder if that love and time investment is ultimately what helped me to thrive?

I’ve also always wanted 3 kids and my time there is obviously running out, and would probably be totally unsustainable on top of my job as it is right now (and do I just want the mat leave to have a break).

Should I just push through and things will get better, or give it up and start afresh?

I don’t do law, but we left London to a commuter town a couple of years ago. We both work big jobs, although have both tried to take a step back. It’s so/so - we are mostly happy, the kids (preschool) are happy, and we both work 1-2 days a week at home now hybrid which honestly makes a huge difference in spending time with them. However the commute is tough, and we log off always to spend time with them from 5.30ish, but then we both sit and work on our laptops over dinner and beyond, so we’re tired.

I don’t know what the answer is. Peers of mine are way out earning me, because they’ve pushed on. I don’t know whether to go for more money now to make it easier later, or to be grateful for what we’ve got. I know it’s going so fast with the children already, and I don’t want to miss it all. I fantasise about just moving away and taking a break. However if I did that, I couldn’t get back in.

You sound burned out- can you take a few days holiday for yourself and see how you feel after that?

Or maybe just take 2-3 days sick leave - ‘stomach bug’ etc. You need some time to rest and think, and you’ve more than put in the hours so you deserve this time to yourself

Leeds and Manchester are 2 obvious locations. Can you speak to a sensible headhunter about potential options? Those hours and the return to work do quickly after such a terrible miscarriage would finish off most people. Good luck OP.

I would think carefully about what it is that you’d want to achieve by moving in house, and at what level. At senior level the structure tends to be very flat, so opportunities for promotion will be limited.

I agree with this. What I’d add is that there are things you can do now to help you decide.
As far as I recall there are career counsellors in the legal field.
Also speak to different recruitment agencies to get a feel for what’s out there
Presumably you’ve looked around on the Roll on Friday website for ideas?
Plan how much you want to earn and what your medium and long term goals are
Would you be ok about earning substantially less if your work life balance was better?
Would you be prepared to move to a different part of the country?
Is there a particular aspect of your work that you could focus on in a new job?

What is it about the work that you so that you enjoy and would be happy to continue? Who else outside your firm do you come across professionally who you could talk to?

Sometimes people are happy to give advice or information when they know that nothing else is being asked of them.

Many lawyers have gone through this experience and it would be worth investigating and speaking to them: possibly even people who used to work in your own firm.

Surprisingly, out of London law firms are willing to employ lawyers to train up in completely different areas of law than the ones their experienced in. But it would be worth researching what allied areas of work you could move into.

It is a an oldie and I don’t know if it’s still published but the What Color Is My Parachute, which also has a workbook, is excellent.

Start thinking, planning and researching.

Many, many others have successfully walked down the same path before you.

Have you spoken to your counselling partner (or whatever your line manager is called)? If you’re going to leave anyway you’re not burning any bridges in terms of partnership prospects. My experience of sitting in a partnership committee is that one of the factors is ‘do we need to promote them - what happens if we don’t’. At the moment your firm is doing brilliantly out of you - your fees will be rolling up into a p&l somewhere that they don’t have to share with you and I guarantee they won’t have noticed the stress this is causing you. Best case outcome of a conversation is that they recognise you need more support and give it you and they recognise they don’t want to lose you so make you partner. Worst case, they don’t but at least you know they have been stringing you along and can make decisions accordingly.

OP, it doesn’t sound like you’re getting much by way of mentorship, sponsorship or support from your seniors. If you’re tipped for partner, you’re obviously someone who they think they should invest in. So where is that investment?

Is there anyone in the firm with whom you can speak along the lines of : “I’m a strong performer in your partner pipeline and will make millions for you if I stay here. But I do not have adequate manager level support, to give me time to do the senior-level work that I excel at and that adds most value. My choices are now to either fix this situation or find a better option outside the firm”.

I’m Big 4 so different but similar. The most successful partners I know (I’m one level below - happy marzipan!) are the ones who are brillliant at negotiating themselves into positions where they get what they need to be successful and bring glory to the firm. Maybe your seniors need a shake; let them see you with your elbows out, making a strong case for what you need now and, in essence, behaving like a confident, growth-focused partner without waiting for the badge.

Again, not from your world so apologies if that would be career suicide in Law. But at least this way, if you do end up leaving, part of your message can be “I was very clear about what I need in order to deliver optimal performance, and I’m going elsewhere to find it”.

good luck.

Someone I know made partner quite young in a magic circle firm. She found it a bit more flexible and was able to negotiate all school holidays off.

However, it doesn’t sound like you can bear the thought of another year of this so I’d be looking to move in house. Do you have family/support ties to other parts of the Uk? It will be a big upheaval moving in terms of the costs of selling/buying, commute costs etc. and there might not be a huge difference in property prices if you need to stay in the London commuter belt.

OP, I left working in a city firm at an earlier stage than you - a few years PQE. We have two children under 8. For me it was an easy decision as I was not thriving in my job. My situation is a little different from yours, I suspect, in that I've since been diagnosed with ADHD, and that meant that although I employed what I now recognise to be incredible self-discipline to focus on work that didn't really interest me for long hours, I had really hit the ceiling of what I could cope with early on and I knew that. I didn't have the focus or maturity to go any further at the time. I looked at what the partners and senior associates had to deal with, and it left me cold. I wasn't interested and ultimately didn't want that level of responsibility. I could not have balanced it in any way with having a family, since having to cope with kids has completely rewired my brain and not in a helpful way.

My family set-up was different from yours though as my DH is a workaholic who is very driven to achieve in his job in a way I've never been. Although I do work, and quite long hours sometimes, it's mostly freelance and on work that interests me and keeps my brain from zoning out. He does carry most of the financial responsibility for our family, but on the other hand I do most of the kid and house stuff. If his job becomes too much for him to cope with (which is entirely possible), we've talked about our next move and how, if he took on more of the responsibility at home, I could then increase my working hours.

If you really don't think you can push through, and you look at the lives of new partners at your firm and that's not really what you want, it does sound like it's time to step sideways. Personally, I'd look Bristol-way - the West Country is a lovely part of the world, property is cheaper by London standards, it's well-connected to London and buzzy enough from a career and social perspective.

This, you are close, don't face the regret of being so close but not knowing what would have happened. Make a decision then.

You sound burnt out and possibly traumatised from your miscarriage and therefore not in a great position to make decisions. I would strongly recommend a couple of weeks sick leave to take stock and make a plan. Your GP will sign you off. It seems like you feel a bit trapped and panicky - you need some breathing space to work through everything. What you want, what works for your family, what’s real and what’s coming from your childhood experience of scarcity. Your job is important, but in the grand scheme of things taking a few weeks off does not matter more than your health and happiness and family.

Oh my goodness! What achievements you've made. I'm super impressed. 🥰

I think, though, that as you are finding life very stressful and not enjoyable, changing direction is a good idea. Get out of London. Find a legal career which allows you to breathe and spend more time with the children and your husband.

Life should be about being happy.

OP I work with law firms, so I understand where you're coming from. Are you confident you WILL make partner next year? I'm always worried when women don't make partner and are fobbed off with some excuse about "politics" or "budgets".

If you are, I think that it is worth holding out for that, but that there are things you can/should do in the meantime.

If you're not paying nannying fees anymore, what can you use that money for to make your life better/easier in the short term? Whether that's buying in help, upgrading your weekends/holidays etc? I had a colleague a few years ago once who chose to cab to and from work for a few weeks as she said the craziness of the tube was just so overwhelming and in the back of a cab she could properly read her emails or make phone calls, and just feel less stresed !

Law firms are difficlt places - lots of things said about work life balance and MH support but not always in reality. Having said that, can you ask about getting some extra time off or a short term flexible working for a few weeks?

I would also see what networking and support groups exist within the organisation you can join. That solidarity can be hugely powerful and there are usually at least a couple of partners who are sponsors and can be a support as well.

I think you are probably facing into the question of whether these sacrifices are worth making.

Only you can answer that BUT as others said , I would wait the year.

Ultimately if you want to earn a high salary, you need to make the sacrifices that go with it and that means limited time with your children.

If you have the right supports - good childcare and another parent who is more present, then this can work well. You miss out but the children often do as well as any other child.

However, you will miss out and you need to make your peace with that.

I think you will need to be around more when they are teens though - they emotionally need you more.

Personally I opted out. I do a 4 day week, we moved out of London and are back near family. I mostly don’t regret it, but as my kids grow into young adults, I realise what I gave up career wise and I won’t ever get that back

But if I am correct, is your dilemma that if you wait the year, even if you do make partner you still have to do another three years until it’s possible to reap the rewards of equity partner? How long then to earn enough that you can step back?

Is there anything you can do in the meantime, to get more experienced juniors etc to take more off your plate right now? Maybe heavily petitioning for this internally could take some of the pressure off and reduce your workload slightly.

Definitely what a PP suggested about getting some legal career counselling or an informal mentoring with another senior (preferably female) lawyer who is a parent. I’ve found that useful (career outside of law in finance) from a woman outside of my company. She is ten years older and very honest. However she is tied in because they’re privately educating all of theirs

I agree that's it important to make peace with whatever your decision is. Don't decide to sacrifice time with your children and then waste your time handwringing about it. The same applies to giving up the job. It sounds at the moment like you haven't really actively decided one way or another. You were already in the career when you had children and after you had them you arranged your life so you could carry on with the job. Now it's crunch time because despite everything you have sacrificed, the job isn't working for you.

I would spend a lot of time thinking about your values and how you want them to influence how you spend your time. This sort of crisis can actually end up (eventually) being a really positive moment in your life as you clarify what matters to you. The main thing is to put everything on the table. Don't feel trapped by the mortgage or the status or your preconceptions about motherhood. Although you feel hemmed in, you are conscientious and highly qualified, and you have many choices open to you.

There must be a middle ground between leaving London entirely, and leaving a US law firm - which are the most brutal. Is there a 'lower level' London firm that may work?

I absolutely get you re the burnout - I had exactly that and I am in immigration, so never the crazy levels of work that I suspect are expected of you.

I'm now approaching 10 years of self-employment, having left my city job and working for myself, from home. The work-life balance is of course far far better, but I am not earning remotely what I would have done had I remained where I was, where I was on partner track. And that is starting to bother me now, as the cost of living situation gets worse.

Would you consider Bristol OP? Lots of law firms here, close to London. Big pay drop though I suppose but what’s the point of earning huge amounts if you’re too stressed and burnt out to enjoy it?

In house doesn’t appeal at all as I genuinely love litigation/black letter law and no interest in business. But perhaps if I had much more of an actual life outside of work I could feign such an interest.

Have you considered civil service litigation roles, e.g. HMRC?

I'm sorry to hear you're struggling. I've had burn out before (corporate rather than litigation) and it's awful. I finally decided that I didn't want to live like that, and moved practice areas, which meant almost going back to the beginning! It sounds like you don't need to be do extreme - you could move to a regional form, for example, send have a much better quality of life, with more spending power in terms of housing and so on. These days I work 3 days a week for a regional firm and pick up my kids from school every day. I also had a third baby, which was really important to me, and got to take a proper maternity leave. Work is a pleasure, not a burden. I don't earn nearly as much as I could do in London but I would have to sacrifice my family and mental health for that money, which just isn't a compromise I'm willing to make. Re partnership - if you moved to a regional firm at your PQE level you could well start as a partner, so you don't necessarily have to wait.

Thank you for the replies - lots of food for thought and I will respond in more detail later when I have a bit of time.

@medievalpenny I have considered this and think it would be super interesting, but it doesn’t pay well enough to enable me to stay in our current house, so I’d need to move to a much cheaper area. I am now willing to consider this.

I would suggest that before you make any final decision to leave, speak to your law firm and see if they have any suggestions for ways it could be made to work for you.

Most city law firms are keen to retain senior women and may be more flexible than you expect. There may be an option to dial it down a bit now and ramp up later.

Also - in house may be a bit dull in terms of the law (not always!) but it is interesting seeing a different working environment and structure. And lawyers with a couple of years’ in house experience are often seen as a good candidate for partner if they move back to private practice, because they know how clients think. They are also seen as good candidates for the consultant/contractor model of lawyering (Axiom etc) which might appeal to you now or later.

I get it. I really do- burnout is real. I completely understand how you feel but I say this as someone who thought I’d be okay walking away from financial security: as women, we’re so vulnerable without it. Divorce, illness, caring responsibilities… it all falls on us. I’m now in a position where I’ve actually joked (half-seriously) about needing an OnlyFans account to top up my income just to stay afloat (I’m working full time plus two part time jobs in the evenings and weekends).

Please protect your future before you walk- build your savings, build your options. It’s not just about the next year; it’s about the years after, when you’ll want freedom and safety.

If your husband is the lower earner, get him to do compressed hours, take on more parenting duties, life admin, etc. don’t throw in the towel just yet.

I agree with this. A lateral move once you’ve made partner to a firm with a less brutal lifestyle is probably the answer here. Get the prize and then cash it in.

Thanks again for all the thoughts. The pp who said I feel panicky and trapped is right. I’m not being the parent I want to be as I’m stressed and snappy with the kids, I’ve put on weight as no time to exercise, I barely see friends. I’ve been pushing and pushing for financial security for my family, but at what cost.

The pp who said I don’t have much in the way of mentorship/sponsorship is right. My sponsor is useless on that front but relies on me totally to execute on all his matters. I’m the mug for tolerating this.

I’m not going to quit now but I am going to try to step back a bit, push more stuff down, and start planning a move maybe for 18 months time, when my eldest is in year 4-5, to put us in a good place for secondary. If I’ve made partner by then, then great, but I’m not going to get sucked into this for the rest of my life. Hopefully we’ll have built more savings and I’ll have had the chance to suss out my options.