Managing a compulsive ‘yes’ person

[Theweedygarden]

TLDR: A compulsive ‘yes’ female colleague has made one to many errors and now I need to manage her incredibly emotional, and slightly childish, response.

I line manage someone who manages a compulsive ‘yes’ woman (A). Anything anyone asks of A, she will do. The person I line manage has been off for several weeks now, and although I have always been aware of A’s issues it is now becoming ridiculous and impacting on business need and my time. Her inability to say ‘no’ means she is late actioning things for me and several times this week I have had to step in and tell her she is not to do something. She cannot manage other colleagues, including those more senior than her (which whilst uncomfortable is part of her job and she knew this when she applied for the role), and her desire to consistently say yes to them means we are actually failing to deliver priorities. She seems to rely on more senior people delivering tough messages that, when I was doing her role, I delivered with ease and others doing the same role can also deliver.

Her interactions with colleagues often go something along the lines of;

B: ‘Can you book this room for me?’
A: (more senior) ‘yes, of course. I’ll do it now.’
Me: ‘Absolutely not. It is B’s job to do this.’

C: ‘We can’t do this. X won’t be happy.’
A: ‘Of course I understand.’
Me: ‘Unfortunately, C it is not our problem if X is not happy - our job is to deliver these outcomes, if your contact is not happy with that it is your job to manage the fallout.’

D: ‘We can’t say this. It will upset them.’
A: ‘Of course. What would you suggest?’
Me: ‘The steer from above has been we are to say this, it does not matter if it upsets them. We gave advice on this, our advice was taken under consideration but the steer from above is that we must proceed. You will need to deliver this message directly to V.’

She seems to worry more about upsetting her contacts across the office than she does about doing a good job. It feels almost as though in her mind if they are upset, she can’t be doing a good job. But in reality it’s the opposite - her contacts across the office should be upset because it is their job to push for unreasonable things to keep their external contacts happy, and it is our job to manage them and prioritise ruthlessly.

Anyway, earlier this week I ended up giving her a first written warning and stated that if she did not improve that I would have to put her on a performance management plan. She’s clearly devastated. She’s been crying at work all week, bursting into tears on video calls etc. But she’s also barely spoken to me (leaving messages read but unanswered on our internal system), and yesterday she failed to action something on time and to a decent standard (I received it after COP and it was very poorly drafted, and I had to send it on to my seniors for 09;00 this morning).

I’ve put an hour in our diaries today and told her I want to talk. I need to address the crying, the poor work yesterday and ignoring me when I asked for things to be done.

I know what to say, but I’m a bit torn on how best to say it. I don’t think being gentle will be help, in part because I am not sure I can as she has made some significant errors in judgement recently that have impacted the business and also because she’s an adult and I don’t think I should coddle her because she’s upset. But I know that if I am too harsh she will probably just cry again and that won’t be conducive to delivering the messages she needs to hears. There’s a happy middle, I’m sure, I’m just not sure what it is.

Has anyone ever had a similar conversation with a colleague? And, if so, how did you handle it?

@Kwamitiki we have offered her support - the employee assistance programme. She found the suggestion she might want to use it ‘offensive’ and asked we never discuss it again.

I am sympathetic to her mental health. But, I can only do so much to help someone who won’t accept help, and who knows and accepts their behaviour is the root of the issue but won’t change because ‘it’s just me.’

What more can I do? At this point, her being performance managed out is probably the kindest thing for her.

@InfoSecInTheCity we’ve sent her on courses, including residential ones (at significant cost) and we’ve arrange for overseas travel to other locations to meet colleagues there and learn from them (again at significant cost and not something others have had). As mentioned above, she refused employee assistance and she has also refused a mentor. We suggested she go part time (to help her manage) and that was also refused. Unfortunately, part of the issue is that her job requires significant personal and professional resilience. It was the header ‘essential criteria’ on the job application. So whilst we can try and build her up - and we really have - as many have said, you can’t change someone’s personality, and the personality is linked to the performance issues.

@Teeteringpiles555 shes not ‘admin’ she’s managerial level! I’m not sure where you got the idea she’s junior from! She’s more junior than me, but not junior. We absolutely do not expect junior staff to push back against seniors, but someone at Deputy Director level should be able to effectively manage a Director General.

Others doing her ‘role’ certainly do. It’s a key requirement of the role because if the nature of our work. HQ typically are more ‘junior’ with a few seniors (including her), but overseas they are seniors ‘delivering on the ground’ with junior teams. The seniors report into us on priorities, and with requests, and we prioritise accordingly as we have the whole world picture and they only have their country specific one. Typically she has Director/Director General level reporting to her and these people reporting in know our job is to say no and to prioritise and their job is to equip us with the information to make those decisions.

When I say ‘people asking her to do room booking.’ That means she will have very junior staff - admin staff - asking her (Deputy Director level) to do room booking and she says yes.

I think everybody needs some training in roles and responsibilities. Are they clear in your organisation? Why is she being asked to do things outside of her role? Other people have a part in this.

I also think if she’s telling you she finds it hard to say no then you must support her on that - maybe she fears the power dynamics (I wouldn’t blame her). You need to take ownership of emails where randoms are asking her to do things outside of her remit. And you need to push back on her behalf. To their line managers if necessary.

I think you need to understand what sits beneath the people pleasing. If the poor woman has had bad parents, she would have had to do people pleasing behaviours to get her basic needs net. It may not be something her rational brain has a lot of control over. Think about it being driven by her nervous system to create the feeling of safety that she needs to be able to work.

As pps have pointed out, the best response is reassurance and training. I’d have given her a job spec, worked with her to make a list of tasks that others are regularly foisting on her, and helped her create responses to these, then sent her on an assertiveness course. Plus had a word with those who regularly put tasks onto her.

For the first time in my life I work in a non-blaming workplace. My LM tries not to paint me as a baddie, even if I’ve not met KPIs at times. My LM gets the best out of me and I hope never to have to leave.

Having just read your update - I take it back. Yes disciplinary. She’s incompetent.

It sounds like you are doing all the right things, and she has been given plenty of opportunity to change, but that she is in the wrong job. If she "hears what you are saying" but refuses to say no to people and has openly said that she will continue because it's her personality then she does sound like she is talking herself out of a job. I think I would re-emphasise her responsibilities, make it clear that doing things outside those is a disciplinary matter, particularly if it means she fails to meet deadlines for her real work, and ask her to role play saying no politely. Any hint that she start to play the martyr by telling people "oh, I would help, but I'll get into trouble with TheWeedyGarden, because she's so mean and stops me..." then that's an unprofessional response. Good luck, not an easy meeting.

Mentor by stealth. You can mentor her.

And please remember as well - you have asked for help here. So you recognise in yourself you need support. (There are some tough responses - but you too are trying your best to fix this and recognise where you need help. Be kind to you both. A win for her is also a win for you. )

Why are processes so shit that everyone is asking the wrong person to do things? Why are so many people allowed to give her work? Sounds like the senior staff need training. Perhaps she feels she can't say no. It all sounds very unclear and a horrible, confusing place to work. Perhaps you need to speak to all the other people and ask them to stop giving her work and actually do some fucking managing and saying no to people yourself.

Employers have a clear duty to manage employees' workload and when they are becoming overwhelmed. So do it.

Poor girl, it must be really hard living like this. It’s a typical ASD/trauma response- the need to constantly say yes. It’s a shame she won’t try to reflect on why she’s doing this.

I’m with OP. The woman has decided that she won’t say no and that that’s just how it is.
It is affecting business and causing issues.
Either she starts to say no or this isn’t her job for her.

Unlike many of the others on thIs chat, I think you have been given a hard time.

my tactic would be to tell her to say something like, let me check with my boss before I say yes, and then you can coach her through how to say no.
she sounds unbearable and I would hate her as a colleague.

we all have to be a different person at work, all the threads about bring your whole self to work, where most posters say they would be sacked by the end of the first day.

i am not getting why people are being some critical of your approach, and your reasonable management request that she learns to stick to her job only.

please can you be my last manager, and sort out the reason - person- I left that job.

You sound like a bully OP. It comes across as very personal, she's your person, except she's not, the company pays both of you. Hope she's been onto HR and her union about all this.

Poor girl? She sounds very senior to me.

I once managed someone like this. I think people are failing to understand just how fucking draining managing a ‘yes’ person is. Their desire to please people often makes things worse.

Your organisation sounds horribly similar to mine, so I completely understand the nuance between managing internal stakeholders and external contacts.

You have HR on board. Which, given HR always want to protect the business at all costs, is pretty sodding remarkable. That other posters have failed to realise that means this must be a serious issue is a reflection on their comprehension skills.

My advice: set out again the areas where her performance is lacking, note it’s not acceptable to ignore her management chain for days (really what the actual hell?!) and remind her you are there to provide support and advice but the onus is on her to take that advice. Ask her what more she needs to improve. Get another colleague to sit in with you and write it all up after and have both agree is reflects the conversation.

But, realistically, she’s going to be gone soon OP if HR are on side. Good luck!

In some roles, if all your stakeholders are happy with you then you are doing it wrong. If you are in a challenge function then your 360 review shouldn't be all positive! Managers need to make this clear ie I support you if this happens. But some people find this really hard, especially if they hate conflict or are people pleasers.

Ok, then it sounds like you have approached this from every possible angle in terms of equipping the skills which means your only option is to go down the formal performance route. She will likely get upset and be difficult to speak to, stick to the facts, layout the list of support that’s been offered, present factual unarguable evidence of when she has gone against what she is supposed to do, outline and quantify the cost to the business of her errors and forge ahead. It can be really hard to have these conversations when you are faced with an emotional reaction, some people use that to their advantage knowing that if they cry they will get a better outcome.

we’ve arrange for overseas travel to other locations to meet colleagues there and learn from them (again at significant cost and not something others have had)

I can't think of anything worse that being sent overseas in the knowledge that the reason you're being sent there is to be taught lessons by colleagues on how to behave. That sounds like a punishment, and then when you return to have your nose rubbed in it that you've had something others haven't even though it's been foisted on you, hence why suggesting that they avail themselves of the EAP is all about fixing themselves, under the guise of "support", feels like an insult to them.

it all sounds deeply unpleasant and I wish this employee every success in finding a role where they are valued and not micro-managed and made to feel like shit every day.

I feel a bit sorry for this employee, being expected to say no to more senior colleagues. No wonder she is in tears.

Why is there a culture of laying the blame at her door, instead of tackling those who are piling the work on her?

She is clearly a people pleaser. Have you ever undertaken personality type assessments at work, as those give useful insight into how to deal with different individuals. It comes down to whether this role is right for her though. If it involves juggling a lot of requests and considering whether they are appropriate it sounds like it definitely isn’t. If she’s competent and good in other areas, would there be any sideways moves to a more appropriate role?

I don't think you have done anything bad here either. Its so hard to have someone like this in a senior role, an example of failing upwards.
I worked for a boss who couldn't say no, and took the resulting chaos and stress out on her team. No one stayed there long. The tears and emotion are inappropriate and potentially manipulative - "mean OP upset lovely lady who always says yes to me".
Just stick to facts, no opinion and bring a 3rd person to the meeting as witness and note taker.

I would layout the conversational quite transactionally with an example, and guide them into how they can solve this for themself. Eg…

You were asked to do A by 5pm and it isn’t to the required standard. Why is this?

<because I did B, C and D instead first>

So instead of delivering A to the required standard, you prioritised B, C and D which aren’t your responsibilities to complete?

<yes>

Why?

<because I could?>

But so could the people who asked you to do it, and it’s their job to do it. Their work is being done, but yours isn’t. How can we rebalance the scales so that your work isn’t slipping in favour of others?

Totally agree.

’Yes people’ can cause a lot of problems for their peers. They think they are being helpful. They then don’t have time to do their own work. They also cause conflict for colleagues with better boundaries, who when trying to push back get labelled as unhelpful because walkover colleague always does it so why can’t they. The delegators in life manipulate these Yes people. It’s a very difficult cycle to break, you experience resistance from the Yes person and those who benefit from their weakness. Crying and complaining is common, you have to persevere and consistently raise examples.

Like others I assumed this member of staff was not management. I’m very surprised that they are.

you will need to do a few things - read and understand your capability/performance policy, get out the JD and factually show where they are failing against the it. If you have a code of conduct this would also be helpful (as it is behaviour).

the ‘it’s just me’ cannot be an acceptable reason for poor performance and behaviour and I salute you for trying to resolve with them… many managers wouldn’t (and probably why this person has progressed upwards). If they are telling you they cannot or are unwilling to change then sadly you need to follow the process and it maybe that they exit the organisation.

you clearly need to be fair and transparent and ensure you document everything.

for completeness you could ask if they have any underlying conditions or issues that may prevent them from achieving these expectations. This is so you can seek out appropriate reasonable adjustments if required - and gives them the opportunity to disclose if they have any issues. I also think that given her response this week, and other signpost to EA wouldn’t be a bad idea, it’s not offensive but the right thing to do in this situation.

Some people are just not the confrontational type, they find saying no uncomfortable especially with more senior people. How do the other people behave when she says no? Do they accept it or do they get stroppy?

Have you spoken to those people to explain they need to stop asking her to do additional tasks?

Her behaviour is not ideal but do you know whether she has anything going on outside work that could be adding to her stress? She may not, she could just be hard work but you need to explore that to help you determine what to do next.

I have someone in my team who I would describe as being of “gentle personality” but she is brilliant at her job. I do my best to support her, I give her the tools to help her say no by giving explanations as to why we can’t do something so that she can relay that message. She knows that I have her back if any of the people she says no to start getting stroppy, and that for certain really difficult people I will step in if she wants me to.

Everything about your posts reads like you are “on the attack” but if this woman is in your team you should be looking after her if you want to get the best out of her.

Sorry my feed froze and hadn’t refreshed when I wrote my last post, I’ve just loaded your updates OP and I take it back………

It doesn’t sound like she wants to change so manage her out.

Spot on. She sounds like a people pleaser who doesn't like to upset people, probably not all that confident, who probably isn't suited to this job and you may find she looks elsewhere anyway. She'll probably respond better if you throw in a bit of praise for her good qualities. You could try the "shit sandwich" approach....start off by saying positive things, then sandwich the things she needs to improve on in the middle, then end on a positive note so that she understands what's needed, but doesn't come away feeling totally useless. I was her once. Good luck!