New employee (Gen Z} doesn’t want to meet in person

[outofofficeon]

I took on a graduate for a new position, she’d been job hunting for a few years, I felt good about giving her a hand up into a great career.
She lives about an hour away so works remotely. She bright and polite and reliable and a good member of the team.

The problem I have is that she doesn’t want to visit the office in person or meet her colleagues in person, I offered to put her up in a nice hotel and pay travel costs so that she could spend a few days with us in person. She declined. My latest issue is that she doesn’t put her camera on when we are communicating at work as part of daily work or chats. I understand she might not be very confident but I think that you have to get out of the house / your comfort zone if you want a career.

im not sure what to do- any advice oh wise ladies.

I disagree. Honestly, it's like a whole new world now. I am retired, but only recently, and have never encountered anyone like this, and can't imagine anyone, of any generation, who I have worked with who would have behaved like this woman. As for cameras being on, that is not something which should even need to be mentioned.

If a boss asks you to come into the office, then you come into the office. Sorry, but employees do not make up their own rules.

As a pp said, I think it's quite obvious why it has taken this young woman so long to find a job.

She’s a new hire so you don’t have to keep her on, or wait until you hire someone else to change things if it’s not working for you. You can just tell her - This is a people job. You’re not connecting with the team the way you need to. An in person meeting might help and I encourage you to take up one of the days I’ve suggested, but if your relationships with the team don’t improve you aren’t going to pass your probation. Also, video on in meetings is a requirement, not a choice.

You’ve gone softly by making the offers, she most know what you need from her (or be so obtuse it’s going to be difficult to excel in a people job) but is avoiding the issue. You need to make it very explicit.

And if she doesn’t go along with it, and does not manage to somehow improve things with the team so she isn’t holding things back, get rid of her sooner rather than later. A poor employee who is holding the team back is not one to keep on, despite how hard hiring is. And an employee who doesn’t want to see people face to face, or understand how that aids communication will be much better off finding a job that doesn’t need it.

To add a different layer to my previous post - You also need to step up. You hired a remote worker so you need to make sure you adapt your management to remote workers. There are a lot of techniques out there to try to and help with developing a team feel with remote and in person workers. If you haven’t been looking at what works and trying things out, complaining about her for the lack of team feeling might be unreasonable.

You can give yourself a much wider range of potential employees if you’re prepared to manage remote workers, but it isn’t the same as managing an office where everyone is in all the time.

The mistake was giving a new graduate a homeworking contract. It sounds like this was done to suit her rather than the business need, so you were effectively on the backfoot from the word go (i live in the suburbs and it takes me an hour to get to my city centre office so it should not have been a factor imo). You have 2 options - accept that the role doesn't work for 100% homeworking and stop it or request some office visits (which likely will be a no). Camera on needs to be company wide expectation.

A sweeping generalisation, but it is not unusual for some in this generation to be off the scale entitled and they don't realise this at all. I do a lot of recruitment and am regularly gobsmacked at peoples expectations of how work (and often other peoples roles) needs to change to the way they want their life to be and to think this is perfectly okay.

I was thinking the same thing @Francestein .

You can’t enforce her to attend if you’ve stipulated in the contract it’s remote, it’s a learning opportunity to write it into future contracts to attend the the office as required with appropriate notice, and travel renumeration. The camera on is a non negotiable- it’s ridiculous and unprofessional that you can’t see an employee when you’re talking to them, and I wouldn’t be accepting that behaviour.

I agree. I find it really disconcerting when people consistently do this. I did a long term course with these types and let's just say they were very difficult in other ways.

Incidentally I thought you could get rid of anyone in the first two years short of disability or sex discrimination?

Just say ‘Please put your camera on for all meetings.’

Surely an employer states this stuff is mandatory.

I think having an open and honest chat would be worthwhile; expectations, and how certain behaviours/etiquette would be beneficial for relationship building, career progression, etc. it may seem obvious to everyone, but doesn’t mean it is for the new hire. It also depends on the company culture.

In-person, I imagine it could be a health issue, disability, or anxiety, which caused them to seek a remote role. But ultimately, it is a remote role. Companies that are fully remote tend to have annual meetups/away days, but make this clear initially.

Check terms of the contract. How regularly would you expect this to happen? I agree with the poster re remote hangs & fun, though camera-on is a must.

Cameras on, where I’ve worked this was standard, although sometimes people might have them off if it was a group meeting & def the case for v large meetings. Sometimes people didn’t have them on, but not for 1:1 meetings unless they were unwell etc, & apologised for it. I’d always keep it on to speak to my manager.

Where my partner works, oddly enough they’re all camera off. Though they see each other weekly in-person.

What an ageist thread. Why is her age relevant OP?

This
Presumably you hired and discussed with others at the company what you wanted in the team. Is she the only one on a remote contract?

If her place of work in her contract is home, then you'd pay her travel costs anyway. But not a hotel for an hour commute! How did that even get suggested?:)

If you are all saying ' ooh she's gen z' then I'm not surprised she doesn't want to go in. Who on the team is mentoring her? Tell them to get the camera on and help her fit in.

What's her feedback on the company so far? Does she think she's doing a great job and happy?

Working remote is one thing but not coming in for meeting when you love an hour away is another! Surely she can do that on a one off basis. Or you go to her! Mind find out something

I think you are naive. After having taught ‘gen Z’ now for a number of years remotely I can tell you that most prefer never to switch on cameras. Some prefer never to move from their bedroom.

She probably thought all her Christmases had scone at once with your lax contract!

Socially able? What's that?

Also what does socialising have to do with cleaning?

You're her manager so start acting like it

I have read all of your posts, and re-read your OP, so I don't think I have missed this bit of information, have you ever met your new employee, eg at the initial interview
@outofofficeon? I feel a bit silly asking that question, as surely it is a given that an employer actually meets someone before they hire them, unless they are going to be employed in somewhere like Antarctica, while the main team are based at, say, King's College, Cambridge. If you didn't meet her, have you ever seen her over video?

I am only wondering because I am very close to someone who has massive Social Phobia who just could not meet new people without becoming so stressed that it made them ill beforehand. However, the person I am talking about could not have attended University to obtain a degree, the only way that they could have got a degree was through the Open University.

How much of your employee's background are you aware of OP? Do you know whether she lives alone, or with her birth family, or a partner, or a friend? If she doesn't have Social Phobia, or something similar, could she be embarrassed about the room behind her looking untidy, or for some other similar reason? I believe that a PP said to let her know that she could have sort of false background, made presumably for people who don't want their homes, or wherever, to be seen.

If you haven't ever seen her, then the scenarios for why she doesn't want to be seen could be many. Maybe she is vastly overweight, or thinks she is, or perhaps she has some sort of visible disability that unfortunately embarrasses her? Whatever the reason is, it does seem to be having a profound effect on her daily life, and I really feel for her.

You sound like an absolutely lovely employer OP, and I think this 'young' lady was very lucky when she found you. So I really wish that I had any advice about how you should continue from here, because as nice as you seem to be, I know you probably can't continue to employ someone if they can't, or won't, fit in with the rest of their work colleagues.
I haven't read all of the other posts on here, but I would be very surprised if you haven't already had some great advice from other Mumsnetters. 💐

Such bad manners not having the camera on. She needs to come into the office. A conversation around basic expectations and manners is needed.

Honestly I come across stuff like this in my job ( and I’m training dentists! I mean come on! This job cannot be done remotely but on training days some will use any excuses- young kids, no babysitter, not feeling it, too far to commute, got a tickle cough.
they are sadly a bit entitled generally.
we usually refuse requests as we can justify that the activity can not be done remotely, for example -
“on the 16th October we are having an in person training day. As part of this we will be doing a short session on Pilates and looking after your back and posture. This will be followed by a working staff lunch, then small group work in conference rooms a, B and c where we will brainstorm ideas to present to the wider group this afternoon. Due to the organisation involved in the day, there will be no access to teams so it won’t be possible to attend remotely. T’s and S’s can be claimed on the day. Looking forward to having you all there. End of.

when it comes to appraisals or any informal feedback, please document her unwillingness. If there is an existing job culture of attending in person on occasion, then that’s how your organisation works and this will hamper her progress. You have every right to point this out.
if you decide to change contracts to reflect a more flexible working arrangement then seek HR advice as to the correct way to approach this.
the time possibly to do this would be when probation is coming to an end.

also most contracts do state something like “ the organisation reserves the right to make reasonable amendments to your terms and conditions of employment. Any changes will be made in writing within one month…”

I have had nightmare after nightmare with Gen Z employees, and some slightly older as well. It's one thing for work life to evolve but lately there seems to be a blur into total disrespect and inability to accept any constructive criticism. My main advice is to set the boundaries now and don't let her dictate to you how things work, otherwise you're setting the precedent for anything else.

Anyway, for this one, I would've thought that the remote working referred to her usual place of work, and that just like any other employee, she can be required on occasion to attend a face to face meeting elsewhere (in this case in your office). Like other posters said, an hour is nothing it's not like she's travelling hundreds of miles and needs a hotel or overnight childcare etc. if she normally works 9-5 then I'd ask her to be in the office 10.30-3.30 for training/team building whatever you like to call it, and reimburse her travel costs then there's no excuse really.

Camera has to be on. Stick to it 100 percent in group calls so she can't query it. Company policy, send a company wide email on it.

I have a similar team member. However, she does have her camera on and will come into the office for short periods. She is excellent at her job and very experienced - she is mature. I have lots of people in my team who are remote in other offices. We have one very interactive team meeting once a week. She gets on well virtually with her colleagues. We put up with this arrangement because, as I said, she is great at her job and would be hard to replace. She also goes to a lot of trouble to make my life easier. I don't know I'd be keen on this arrangement for a graduate or if it affected work or the team but the job is "technical" and attracts introverts.

Kindly, op, you sound a little unassertive as a boss. Absolutely reasonable to ask her to put the camera on.
As for attending the workplace. If it doesn't work any longer as a remote role yes you can change terms and conditions but you'd need some proper legal advice. Loads of companies have done this post pandemic, as they realised fully remote may not be the best for the business so there's oodles of case law. You just need a professional to guide you through the process.

I think you need to woman up here!

I have the camera off issue from time to time with new employees. On a Teams call I’ll just say “could everyone please turn their cameras on” and then wait politely. I have had on one occasion to say “George, you too”. Turns out George had joined the call then gone off to do other non-work things. When I asked George’s blank screen a direct question 45 mins later he was still not back. George will not be with us for much longer, but it does make you wonder how many people on the call with their cameras off are even at their desks.

Ha ha! George got proper caught out there!

Agree. I also teach gen z and have remote meetings. Their cameras are always off. I have explained to them that it's rude unless there is a genuine technical reason (poor WiFi) but then you get told it's anxiety, which they know you can't challenge.