Help me process my thoughts after job application

[mommydragonn]

I had applied for an internal job opening recently. It was a little far fletched as I didn’t have direct experience in the field. But nothing that I could not pick up with right amount of training and mentoring. I was even told there were two openings and possibly a third one. In fact the recruiting Manager said there were other candidates already in team who had come from different departments and had not had any direct experience.

I waited 40 days and only found out that I didn’t get the role when I saw a new outside recruit in office. Two days later I was told all sorts by recruiting Manager complementing me on my cv and experience and work I do and how they had to give even the second opening to an outside candidate because they were very good and desirable. I was told when the third opening comes up it would be mine. I asked for a time frame and was told possibly 3 months. The Recruiting manager spoke as if I got the job. He was joking about how he would have to modify things when I join their department.

To be honest I took what he said with a pinch of salt. I was thinking if I was good for third vacancy, why not give me the second confirmed opening.

I didn’t want to ruin my chances so kept quiet. But soon after he was off with me. But when the second recruit started he would bring her to me for guidance as it involved working together.

Recently, after about 3 months have passed, I made the mistake of telling him that I thought what he had told me about getting the third vacancy was made up. He once again said if and when it came out he would approach me first. But again in person he seems angry and off. I wanted to clear things and called for a short meeting.

he didn’t seem to remember my accusations. This time he made it seem he was really after the second candidate. Still same story to me about if and when third opening came up. I tried to say about why not give internal candidates a chance. I mentioned that my department head was promoting other people… I think I made myself seem insignificant I feel very embarrassed and angry at myself. I think they never intended to recruit me and being off with me and not acknowledging me or replying to my ‘Hello’ should’ve been taken as a sign. But i also know that this Manager can be quite socially awkward. I don’t know what to do. I am angry but can’t go all guns blazing. Same time I am not sure if and when 3rd comes up I am really welcome. I feel like I am imposing.

For now my work will not involve having any connection with their department and I will hardly see them. I thought stay quiet and well away. And to assume there was no opening for me. Can you share any experiences as I don’t know whether to think negative or positive.

In no particular order:
What motivated you to apply in the first place? Was it the team, the tasks, more money, career progression?

How good a relationship do you have with your line manager? Because they're responsible for your development aren't they? Can you get their thoughts on the matter?

I can't tell for sure but I wonder if other team leader was trying to let you down gently, and was riled when you challenged them, and even more annoyed that you followed up. Because they thought you were given a hard no. You didn't get the hint, and it annoyed them.

They've messed you about. If they seriously wanted you in their department, they wouldn't fart about like this. I think you should forget this and look for other opportunities, don't waste any more headspace analysing your experience. If they do stop shilly-shallying and decide they want you, they'll let you know.

Thanks for reading and replying.

my line management are new and arrived from Asia. They recently promoted someone they know from Asia for a position in our department. It was all very openly done. Pure favouritism. But I applied in the other department to learn something new as know I might not get any promotion in my own.

actually one thing the recruiting manager said was ‘so you are still interested?’ . So ties in with what you are saying.

I am also 48. The second recruit is much younger but surely qualified. On calls with that department manager has addressed her as glamorous assistant. But they are known for their banter.she was also recommended by assistant manager of that department. So again partly a case of recommendation. So I am not wrong in thinking I stop waiting. But feel angry and what if they do approach me after 6 months or so.

The recruitment of first two candidates all smooth, fast tracked, put on pedestal, worshipped, welcome lunches all done. And here I am waiting for months now.

I gave them the option to say No to be from the onset as I didn’t have direct experience.

Your company possibly doesn’t recruit fairly and openly. Its mates for the jobs and no one should ever promise a job to anyone. How do they know what experience and attributes the other applicants might have? Are they comparing via applications and a fair recruitment process? It seems not. They obviously slide people in and obviously you feel rejected. It looks a bit dead end for you so what other jobs are there elsewhere?

Even if the 3rd vacancy was not forthcoming soon, I think an update here and there would have still given me hope. But I hear nothing for months. Shame I really was interested. And I would’ve respected them more had they said NO to me. I showed them respect by wanting to join their team and I got in return being left in limbo for months. I do hope if and when they approach I have the guts to say NO. ‘If and when’ being their tag line.

Smile and build allies and keep your ear to the ground. Then only go for stuff that interests you and is in your best interests. Think about what you can do to better position yourself for future openings in the direction you want to go, and also to show that you have done so. Be the candidate they think of when they have an opening, so you can pick and choose. Have an 'alls fair in love and war' attitude to their recruitment - they can recruit as they choose, and challenging their processes might be reasonable, but it won't get you a job. Likewise, think about your strategy for managing communication with difficult people or just a range of people. Work is a game and you have to show your talent and use your strategy to win.

@mommydragonn But one must assume there is no job. Desire from you to want one is not the same. Nor is vague hints from them. They don’t appear to open jobs up to all and I guess you are not on the favoured list. It’s shoddy.

Look at it as a bullet dodged.

I wanted this role, went for an interview, thought I aced it but didn't get the job. Requested for a feedback session and he was patronising and couldnt tell me why I was given the low scores. I was glad I didn't get the job after that session as I would have to report to him. Months later, I found out he'd been rude and unprofessional and micromanaging his direct reports. So, glad I'm not part of that team!

Just keep your eyes open for future opportunities and try and train in that area for now if you can.

I think you handled it better than you give yourself credit for. Honestly, it sounds like the manager was stringing you along a bit just to keep options open, which sucks but happens a lot. I wouldn’t beat yourself up about the conversation—you were just being honest about how you felt

When I was finding out more on the role before my application, another asst manager too said there might be 3 vacancies. Could it just be Sod’s Law that they wanted to keep me as spare for 3rd but wanted to get the two experienced people in first as they had shorter notice period. My mind is all over the place.

And the 3rd didn’t materialise.

Unfortunately I've experienced a few times managers stringing me along or insinuating a job is definitely mine and I've concluded its all bullshit, maybe they mean it at the time, maybe they don't, but if someone else does better at interview on the day then its game over.

I just went through a process where I had to apply for my own job as a temp and was assured it was mine, just procedure etc and then found out they very nearly gave it to someone else who scored slightly higher. Luckily they didn't, but I'll never ever take any confidence in being told a job is mine/ interview is just a formality again. One to take not just with a pinch of salt but a huge fucking salt mill!

Well this is an object lesson in never trust an employer. Its even worse when its an outside vacancy and they held interviews just to satisfy procedure, When all the time they had an internal candidate in mind. So you go through the process of interviews and form filling just so they could put a tick in a box.

Often when a woman in her 40s or older has been in a job for some years she becomes invisible. Managers no longer think of her when they are looking for someone to promote. So she gets passed over time and time again. This is often true when she is a steady reliable worker whom they rely on in their current role. You are just "Audrey in accounts". You imply that the successful applicants had other/better qualifications. Are there any courses you could do to make yourself more marketable? Have you seriously spoken to your manager about career development?

You also imply that there was something "glamorous" about these successful applicants. Think of how successfully Margaret Thatcher rebranded herself in order to be taken seriously in politics. Now Im not suggesting you go out and buy yourself a dark blue power suit! But maybe look to see if your image needs to be updated.

@IDontHateRainbows No one should ever promise anything before reviewing applications and candidates. Never believe anyone who says this and they need training not to say it!

I was going to say that while internal candidates often hear about jobs first and have the advantage of being able to chat informally to hiring managers, the fact they already work there doesn’t - and shouldn’t - give them an advantage over external candidates if the external person is a better fit. Then I read your update about nepotism and misogynist banter and concluded this is probably just a toxic workplace where you can’t rely on things being done transparently or fairly, so yes, your manager could well be stringing you along about the third vacancy.

I know this now and its been a massive eye opener. I was told repeatedly the job was mine, they needed stability in the team, just have to go through the procedure etc abd stupidly didn't take my prep so seriously thinking I'd already proved myself through work outputs ( always excellent feedback).

To think i nearly lost it all to an unknown candidate who scored a little higher....I found out that someone pushed for an exception to be made as they didn't want to lose me but it was close. I'll never ever take words like that for granted again.

@IDontHateRainbows It also depends how rigidly they stick to scoring! Someone can tick many attributes, qualifications and experience but are truly the wrong fit on personality. I’ve interviewed for head teachers. Once we had 2 very equal candidates but one was very lacking in personality. No one could imagine him being respected by dc. Just no charisma and came across as boring with long answers at interview. So you need a little window to move away from the evidence tick list because fitting in is important.

Well motivation is a different more interesting and challenging role with more money involved. I have been doing what I do for a long time.

regarding career development in my own team, my team if pretty toxic and I think i mentioned promotions are based on who managers know and want to give it to. Well the external candidates are technically qualified and good. My only dilemma is whether the recruiting managers are serious about considering me. I am also aware that I will need to go through interviews and will prepare as well as I can.

Hello all, so an update. I had dropped this completely around September as there was no third vacancy. I tried to avoid the hiring manager. I didn’t even need to work with him anymore as my current role had changed a little. But he kept engaging just pleasantaries… nothing major. In November I get a chat from him saying Heads up vacancy should be out soon. But I knew some jobs were also changing in the background and asked him to check whether the vacancy would still be valid if the background functions were changing. He said he would check and get back to me.

he didn’t get back and I missed deadline for applying. Next I see they had started interviews in January already. So I called him and asked if the vacancy was still going ahead inspite of background function changes. He said yes and ‘ why was I still interested’?

I said yes I was interested. He quickly arranged an interview for me. Saying appointment would be based on merits. I told him if he thought I wasn’t the right candidate he could always say No.

so I did the interview… all positive through out saying how in the past they had kept inexperienced but eager candidates and trained them etc etc. i think i did well in the interview. Got nervous on one question. I had also been researching all the technical stuff and was confident.

but i knew i wasn’t going to get the role. From 60 cv he had shortlisted just 3. None experienced, but one stood out as had an interesting back story. So he had basically set things up for this candidate to succeed all along. I applied later. And that’s why my criteria suddenly changed based on merits when last year he was practically offering me a job on the spot.

he seemed to be in a rush to wrap things up. He arranged a meeting with me and usually it means a feedback meeting. So he said he went with the other candidate and I was great etc and he had asked around about me and I had messed up on one question that’s all. I told him then that I had given examples during the interview on other similar questions and they knew I could be forceful as I have worked with them and also sit quite close to them.

Then I asked him if I could provide some feedback and he said ofcourse….

1. i told him that he had been stringing me along for a good few months.

2. I suggested that as a recruiting manager he shouldn’t be making false promises to candidates that when a third vacancy comes out, I will be brought in, some one who will train me albeit not very organised training. He will need to watch what he says in front of me. Etc etc and oh yeah I will need to do an interview for HR. Then sending me emails that he will come to me first before a vacancy is about to come out. Then actually sending me a chat that vacancy is about to come out. So I told him that not sure whether he does this with other candidates too, but my advice to him was to stop because someone could report to HR when they don’t get a job.

3. I commented about how when they like external candidates, everything happens in a flash, interviews, job offers, visa , welcome lunches, training etc . But me as an internal applicant was kept waiting 40 days last year after applying, then another 3 months waiting for third vacancy. No regard for my time. No communication and interview or rejection… just waiting. While they got on with their new recruits.

Needless to say the above didn’t go down well.

So basically I just didn’t burn the bridge, I brought down any charred remains with a wreaking ball. 🤭

I feel like shit but last two times I spoke with him I have been very calm and professional. Thought I will not be able to get peace until I give them a piece of my mind.

And BTW my prediction turned out to be correct and in the end the vacancy did get scrapped. That’s why he seemed to be in a rush because he wanted to get this recruit in. Makes no difference for me because i guess he will approach this candidate sooner or later when another opening does come up.

Good on you for giving them feedback, sounds like they were never going to promote you so nothing to lose.

There's no such thing as loyalty, and unlike some other posters I do think that if an internal candidate has gone into a role, made a difference etc they should be given priority not knocked out of the park because they scored slightly lower on one interview question on the day. I'm saying this thinking more of a situation like my own where it was the exact same role just I was going temp to perm and not so much where it's a step up.

As for me I'm still not completely safe, I went from temp to ftc and may have to go through the whole shebang again, although the company is now paying for me to get some development, several grand for a course of 121 coaching sessions, so if they then give the job to someone else at a later date at least I'll have the satisfaction of knowing they wasted their money (and I can take the development to another employer). Also I will have applied for the same role alongside external candidates 3 times, which is 2 more than it should be in any organisation!

I have learned a lesson… it’s not yours unless you get the offer letter. Just gutted he thought it was ok to waste my time. I really wanted the job. Glad I gave him a piece of my mind. Unfortunately my issue is a am still holding some hope. I need to wake up. Almost as if i have no back bone. I know vacancies will be few and far in between with the selected candidate getting in first. But I am hoping in future maybe they would still approach me because i did a good interview and they didn’t have anything negative to say about me. Also fact I pulled him up and he did apologise saying he tends to get too familiar and says things.

i know he can be silly but in work he is brilliant and i thought him, the team, the work ideal for me. I will just quietly watch his behaviour. I am all still cool with him team and it seems like his assistant managers have respect for me. Is it bad that I am still hopeful? How can I stop being hopeful?

also my management is changing… so hopefully the new managers see potential in me and promote me. So all really open at the moment.