I calmly pitched myself at a RIDICULOUS salary today....

[WorkingBling]

Well, not entirely ridiculous. But right at the top end for this sort of job.

It's role that I've been talking to this company about, with whom I already work, for close to 6 months. Taking the job, if I get it, will be both terrifying and exciting. The actual work is 100% in my wheelhouse, but it's a long time since I've have had this sort of traditional corporate job (I've been consulting, freelance, for years now).

I'm fully awre that if they give me the salary, it's right at the top end of what is considered acceptable for a role like this. But I have strong reasons for wanting that pay: as a consultant, I earn a good salary on a per day basis; I have excellent experience; there's quite a lot of risk for me in taking this job and giving up my consulting role; when I left the corporate world almost 15 years ago, I was earning about 2/3 of what I'm asking for now.

I'm just completely gobsmacked I managed to do it. I've known this conversation has to happen for a while so I wasn't unprepared, but traditionally, I've been hugely underpaid. So I'm really really proud of myself for saying what I actually want.

Of course, there's a chance they'll tell me "get lost" now! But it's a risk I felt I had to take as if I didn't get this salary, the reality is that I'd not be able to take the job.

Is it just me who feels like this when asking for significant pay? I'm literally still completely in shock.

Thanks so much for the support everyone. It's mind blowing I'm doing this.

If it happens, DH and I need to take a long had look at our finances which have been a bit dodgt for a while, and use this reliable monthly amount to really sort ourselves out.

Thanks for unpacking the thinking.i really like that clarity; it's not a mad high pitch, its a well-thought through and justified assessment of what you're worth and what they get for that. I would feel calm and in control, not punchy and apologetic, with that thinking behind me. Good luck!

Yes, indeed.

(Which is why it was clearly a joke!)

Women do under negotiate, and undersell themselves generally compared to men, according to a women’s recruitment mentoring talk I went to.

Call some recruiters in your area and ask them to advise on salary for your role. I realised I was underpaid from this, and asked for a 30% pay rise a couple of years ago. It was beyond nerve wracking and awkward asking (and waiting), but a week later, they came back and agreed it. Beyond just the pay increase, it increases pension contributions, and also bonus which is sized on salary to a degree.

Sorry @FortunaMajori was quoting your post as I agree, but the advice was for the person asking for the notes!

They say you should find the figure that makes you laugh out loud to say. Hope you can update us. Good luck

Well done OP if you were a man you'd have probably asked for even more.

Go OP! Keep us posted!

Good luck I am rooting for you!

Well done! I did the same and I start next month. 😁

Women tend to undersell themselves compared to men. I work in men dominated industry and believe me they wouldn't hesitate to go for promotions or ask for pay raise compared to us even when they are under qualified.

Good luck, OP!

It's always good to check past amounts of money to present day equivalents!

"when I left the corporate world almost 15 years ago, I was earning about 2/3 of what I'm asking for now."

£60,000 in 2010 is £92,880.46 today using the Bank of England's inflation calculator. Might not be so outrageous after all!

I also do this in e.g. Space NK when I am trying to work out why an eye cream that I think should be £35 is now £54

💯

To the people commenting about if I was man...

I've given this a lot of thought. And I think it's true. But I think it's actually more nuanced than that. It's also about how the job is pitched and the level of seniority/job title etc. I think as women we tend to accept supporting roles and therefore see them as less valuable. so a man isn't just asking for more money becuase he's a man, he's asking for more money because he sees the ROLE as being worth it. That has informed a lot of my thinking on this.

Would love to know how it goes OP, let us know!

That's amazing. I would still work from home at times, though, to make my life easier. If I was going to be constantly distracted it would be different - it depends on how old your children are.

Well done for asking for what you want. This time last year I was in exactly the same place as you. I came out of consulting and a permanent role came up at 2 companies. I interviewed for both and asked for the top end of the salary bracket. Also asked for flexible working. Both companies came back with what I asked for. A year later im happy, and got another pay rise in April which was unexpected. Sometimes you just have to ask to get what you want.

Really hope you get this @WorkingBling

I am here to update....

Good news and average news!

Good news is that I 100% got the job! The average news is that they have a bit of an odd pay structure. So, in a good year, I will absolutely get the full pay that I asked for (well, almost - slightly below - but I expected that as part of the negotiation). But the downside is that a bigger chunk than I would like is performance (company and individual) based and therefore variable. So, last year, they had an excellent year so assuming I'd done well, I'd have got the full whack. But this year, which has been slower, it's less likely.

We are still in negotiations however, and they've agreed to relook at the base and how to increase that a bit more to get me closer to the amount on a guaranteed basis.

Interestingly, I have discovered they also have an internal level thing and they weren't sure what level to bring me in at and this is where I think there IS some gender issues at play. I wil be joining a large team and would join that team as part of the core leadership of that group. In that team, once I join, the gender split will be 40% men, 60% women (plus the boss who is a man). But the men are all on the higher band and only 1 woman is and they are talking about bringing me in at the lower band. The theory (supposedly) is that it gives them more room to promote me and give me more money in due course. But it doesn't sit right with me so I am pushing back on that..... I find it deeply odd that on a heirachy scale, the men are all higher ranked.

Negotiate hard. If you want the base pay at a certain level, make it clear that’s what it takes to get it over the line. Regarding the grades - big red flags there. The grade should be based on the role & not the person within it. It is either level A or level B - irrespective of the skillset of the incumbent within it. Then, you place the candidate at an appropriate point within the pay range to reflect their skills, experience, and the companies pay philosophy.

Low balling someone at offer stage to create space for them to grow into is shitty.

Yeah, it's not personal and it's complicated because the role didn't exist until now and they're basing it, to a cetain extent, on me, but i agree. It's not okay. And frankly, i've been burned by this sort of ridiculousness before.

Much to my frustration, like so many people, especialyl women, i do tend to suffer from a bit of imposter syndrome. And I worry always that I don't have the "gravitas" (bullshit word) etc. Then today I was on an email trail from two of the people on this leadership team and I realised that they may well be extremely competent in their specific areas, but I am just as competent in mine and that as a result I just saved them, again, from looking like idiots. So I'll be finding a way to make that point if it becomes necessary in the next round of negotiations.

I definitely left it at "please let me see a final offer with proper break downs" but I am a bit concerned it sounded like I was saying it's tentatively all fine. Do you thnk I should follow up our conversation with an email? I'm only hesitant because I had already sent an email PRIOR to the conversation so I don't want look like a stuck record but I am thinking I might....

The theory (supposedly) is that it gives them more room to promote me and give me more money in due course

That is deeply unconvincing twaddle. Moving up "the higher band" would have the same effect, assuming you don't start at the top of it.

Don't those men already in that band have the potential for promotion, too?

I think it’s fine to push back and ask for the higher level

Seen this all the time - women brought in at a lower level and asked to prove themselves

Friend at a consulting company had that - they asked her to go from zero - she proved her book of business and made partner but it took 2-3 years, and recently a guy joined into partner will be at zero day 1 but somehow ok

It’s such a blind spot though - people don’t realise they are even doing it offering women the “prove it” level vs the appropriate one

Update.

They have increased the base significantly. Still not quite where I would like to be. Potential bonus however has ALSO increased as they've accepted the higher grading. Which means that theoretically, in a good year, my pay would actually be significantly over what I originally asked for (like 20% over!) I am toying with asking for a slight further increase, but I'm not massively optimistic so might just not bother.

the only issue now is timing which may be a bit longer. This is a LITTLE frustrating, but, ironically, financially, it works out for me as it allows me to get a couple of additional consulting months under my belt with some additional work I hadn't been expecting including, possibly, a medium size project I had expected to have to decline.

So I am here to tell you all that we should believe in our worth! Thanks for everyone's support.

Well done, @WorkingBling !
You could ask them about their Gender Pay Gap and how they plan to address it- getting your pay properly established should help with this. Don't fall for the 'room for upgrades' twaddle. And base salary is much more important than a potential bonus- I'd be willing to trade off unspecified bonus and share options for guaranteed consolidated base pay.